Tolkien's Languages - Page 16

Ruinel · 06-18-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
Not only is nr not a valid cluster, but I don't think th is either.

yes.. I forgot about 'th' not being a valid consonant cluster.

Leave it to OrnelÃ*rÃ« to remember that.

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 06-18-2003, 04:47 PM

NÃ¡n analassea vinyar queni nar sinÃ³messe. Haryan estel tecuvante?

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 06-18-2003, 05:16 PM

Oh, by the way, nati means 'things'

Ruinel · 06-18-2003, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
NÃ¡n analassea vinyar queni nar sinÃ³messe. Haryan estel tecuvante?

I is most joyous (a) new person are in this place. I have hope they shall/will write.

Sanda. Ni yando.

Ruinel · 06-18-2003, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
Oh, by the way, nati means 'things'

Ah.. yes.. I see it in my wordlist now.

I don't know why I missed it before. Thank you.

Edit: Mi ormÃ«, ni ÃºmÃ« cennÃ« i quetta 'nat' ar 'nati' nÃ¡ limbÃ«. Ni cennÃ« sÃ*.

Ok, then you are saying that we need good things to write about.

agreed

***Earniel*** · 06-18-2003, 06:22 PM

Thanks! It was really beginning to bother me. So LinanrinthÃ« isn't a real elven word? Typical. Sooo typical. It'd be just like her for making up a word and see me sweat on finding the translation. I don't think she had it from the Barrowdowns, she doesn't know that site yet. My guess is she probably mixed it together using the Silmarillion and liked the sound of the word.

But she'll be hearing THAT tomorrow!

Ruinel · 06-18-2003, 06:41 PM

Sanda, EÃ¤rniel, sanda.

Uin lavÃ« carirÃ« tyaliÃ« et le.

Spoiler for EÃ¤rniel only

True, EÃ¤rniel, true.

Do not allow her make sport out of you.

Falagar · 06-19-2003, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
yes.. I forgot about 'th' not being a valid consonant cluster. Leave it to OrnelÃ*rÃ« to remember that.

'Th' may be a valid cluster (though in Quenya it isn't really a cluster), depends on how much you like FÃ«anor

***Fat middle*** · 06-19-2003, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Sanda, meren tecel sÃ*men, TiucaÃ«ndÃ« (Fat Middle).

i can understand "merin" (i wish), "tecil" (you write) and "sÃ*men" (here). also "tiuca" (fat)

what's sanda? and what is -endÃ« (the first diaeresis should drop out, i think)?

i'm not sure of "tecil". if you want to say "i want you to write here" you should use the infinitive of tec instead of aortist, and in that case it's be "tecital". right?

***Earniel*** · 06-19-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ruinel
Sanda, EÃ¤rniel, sanda. Uin lavÃ« carirÃ« tyaliÃ« et le.

My conversation with my friend:

Me: I've found LinanrinthÃ«.
Friend: *pouts* So soon?
Me: It's not even real elvish, now is it?
Friend: *grins* Had you big time, didn't I?
Me: So you admit! Why you little... *makes semi-serious attack on friend*
Friend: *dodges and laughs* I still can't believe you fell for it. I thought it was sooo obvious. What made you realise it?
Me: *grins* I happen to have my sources.

Last time I'm putting any faith in her elvish.

Lady of Rohan · 06-19-2003, 10:03 PM

If there are any Sindarin speaking entmooters out there (which I know there are), could you please tell me how you would say 'Bridgette' in Sindar?

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 06-20-2003, 12:21 AM

According to my source, "Bridgette" or "Bridget" means "high goddess". I do not know how this is said in Sindarin, but I do know the name in Quenya. "High" is best translated "ara"="high, noble", and the nearest thing to goddesses in Tolkien's legendarium are the female Valar, the Valier, singular ValiÃ«. Therefore Bridgette= AravaliÃ« in Quenya. A very beautiful name, pronounced air-ah-val-i-ay, with a trilled 'r'.

It is good to post again

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-20-2003, 12:31 AM

I'm not sure, but I think it would be like Arabalan. Is there a feminine ending in Sindarin? I believe that the Sindarin for High would be "ar, ara, aran" and the Sindarin for Power or Vala be "Balan". Not sure about the Valar, though.

Falagar · 06-20-2003, 02:51 AM

In Sindarin it should indeed be 'balan', but 'balan' would be lenited when put into a combo, can't remember into what. It would be either 'valan' or 'mhalan' or something like that...

I'll be gone for some weeks now, by the way!

Got to run...

Lady of Rohan · 06-20-2003, 11:16 PM

Thank you very much.

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-20-2003, 11:20 PM

Aravalan.

Possibly Arvalwen, or Arvalariel, or something similar, incorporating a feminine term, rather than solely the (unisexual?) "balan" root.

By the way, I'm Eruresto.

Ruinel · 06-21-2003, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fat middle
i can understand "merin" (i wish), "tecil" (you write) and "sÃ*men" (here). also "tiuca" (fat)

what's sanda? and what is -endÃ« (the first diaeresis should drop out, i think)?

i'm not sure of "tecil". if you want to say "i want you to write here" you should use the infinitive of tec instead of aortist, and in that case it's be "tecital". right?

Sanda = true (we've been using it to agree with someone)
I didn't drop the diaeresis because I didn't know how much Quenya you knew and was trying to make it easier for you.
I'm not at home, I'm on vacation. I don't have my Quenya notes w/ me.

EÃ¤rniel: I'm glad we could help you.

Come back anytime. You are always welcome.

Hmmmm... looks like Falagar and I will both be on vacation at the same time. I'm already on vacation now.

I'll check the thread from time to time and access the word list if I have any time at all.

NamariÃ«.

(don't correct me! I'm not at my computer.

)

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 06-22-2003, 11:16 AM

Sweet, so many new people here since I was here last. A note on infinitives: I always thought A-stem verbs were not changed at all, and that basic verbs added e. What Fat Middle (?) said about the -ita ending is the extended infinitive. I believed it was used to say 'in order to ____'. It's also how you form gerunds, I think. But maybe what Fat Middle (?) said was right?

Naan laire-coasse. My modem is 56k here, I won't stop in as often. Also, July First I leave for camp, returning the 6th of August.

EDIT: On the Sindarin name, if you took ar and balan, balan would become valan, but I don't know if you only mutate words with prepositions and such.

Ruinel · 06-22-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OrnelÃ*rÃ« MistÃ«
Sweet, so many new people here since I was here last.

Agreed.

Quote:

A note on infinitives: I always thought A-stem verbs were not changed at all, and that basic verbs added e. What Fat Middle (?) said about the -ita ending is the extended infinitive. I believed it was used to say 'in order to ____'. It's also how you form gerunds, I think. But maybe what Fat Middle (?) said was right?

hmmmm... could we get a confirmation on this? You don't seem to be definite on it, and it would be good if we were sure.

Quote:

Also, July First I leave for camp, returning the 6th of August.

Oh.

I'll be back from this vacation on July 1st. *sigh* Who will speak Quenya with me until you return?

OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« · 06-22-2003, 10:42 PM

Qoting Ardalambion:
The extended infinitive may also function as a gerund, that is, a verbal noun the English equivalent of which is formed with the ending -ing. (This English ending is also used to form active participles, but they are quite distinct in Quenya, ending in -la instead.) An extended infinitive is seen to function as an gerund in the sentence lÃ¡ carita i hamil mÃ¡ra alasaila nÃ¡, "not to do [or, not doing] what you judge good would be unwise" (VT42:33). Another infinitival/gerundial ending is -iÃ«, as in the verbal noun tyaliÃ« "play(ing)" vs. the basic verb tyal- "to play". The final -a of an A-stem verb would apparently be omitted before the ending -iÃ« is added (and in the case of a verb ending in -ya, this entire ending would have to go, since **-yiÃ« would be an impossible combination). Combined with the dative ending -n "to, for", such gerunds in -iÃ« may express the meaning of English infinitives signifying "[in order] to do": The verb enyal- "recall" is attested in the form enyalien "[in order] to recall/commemorate", which Tolkien explained as a gerund inflected for dative (UT:317).

And:
The infinitive of a basic verb (e.g. quet- "to speak") shows the ending -Ã«, as in the example polin quetÃ« "I can speak" (VT41:6). A-stem verbs apparently show no special endings in the infinitive; the stem and the infinitive are simply identical (for instance, the verb lelya- "go" would have the infinitive lelya "to go"). Thus, the infinitive is identical in form to an (endingless) aorist. Quenya also has an extended infinitive which adds the ending -ta; when added to the infinitive of a basic verb, its ending -Ã« instead appears as -i-: While the simplest infinitive of the verb car- "to do, to make" is carÃ«, its extended infinitive is thus carita. The extended infinitive may receive pronominal endings denoting the object of the infinitive, e.g. -s "it" in caritas "to do it".

Therer we go! Whatever happened to Almie?

06-18-2003, 04:47 PM	#302
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	NÃ¡n analassea vinyar queni nar sinÃ³messe. Haryan estel tecuvante? __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

06-18-2003, 05:16 PM	#303
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Oh, by the way, nati means 'things' __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

06-18-2003, 06:22 PM	#306
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Thanks! It was really beginning to bother me. So LinanrinthÃ« isn't a real elven word? Typical. Sooo typical. It'd be just like her for making up a word and see me sweat on finding the translation. I don't think she had it from the Barrowdowns, she doesn't know that site yet. My guess is she probably mixed it together using the Silmarillion and liked the sound of the word. But she'll be hearing THAT tomorrow! __________________ We are not things.

06-20-2003, 12:21 AM	#312
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	According to my source, "Bridgette" or "Bridget" means "high goddess". I do not know how this is said in Sindarin, but I do know the name in Quenya. "High" is best translated "ara"="high, noble", and the nearest thing to goddesses in Tolkien's legendarium are the female Valar, the Valier, singular ValiÃ«. Therefore Bridgette= AravaliÃ« in Quenya. A very beautiful name, pronounced air-ah-val-i-ay, with a trilled 'r'. It is good to post again __________________ Falmon -- Dylan Last edited by Ã‘Ã³lendil : 06-20-2003 at 12:22 AM.

06-20-2003, 12:31 AM	#313
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	I'm not sure, but I think it would be like Arabalan. Is there a feminine ending in Sindarin? I believe that the Sindarin for High would be "ar, ara, aran" and the Sindarin for Power or Vala be "Balan". Not sure about the Valar, though. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-19-2003, 10:03 PM	#311
Lady of Rohan Doughy Elf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,006	If there are any Sindarin speaking entmooters out there (which I know there are), could you please tell me how you would say 'Bridgette' in Sindar?

06-20-2003, 02:51 AM	#314
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	In Sindarin it should indeed be 'balan', but 'balan' would be lenited when put into a combo, can't remember into what. It would be either 'valan' or 'mhalan' or something like that... I'll be gone for some weeks now, by the way! Got to run... __________________ FÃ«anor - Innocence incarnated Still, AikanÃ¡ro 'till the Last battle.

06-20-2003, 11:16 PM	#315
Lady of Rohan Doughy Elf Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,006	hey, I am a high goddess then.... :D Thank you very much.

06-20-2003, 11:20 PM	#316
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Aravalan. Possibly Arvalwen, or Arvalariel, or something similar, incorporating a feminine term, rather than solely the (unisexual?) "balan" root. By the way, I'm Eruresto. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-22-2003, 11:16 AM	#318
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Sweet, so many new people here since I was here last. A note on infinitives: I always thought A-stem verbs were not changed at all, and that basic verbs added e. What Fat Middle (?) said about the -ita ending is the extended infinitive. I believed it was used to say 'in order to ____'. It's also how you form gerunds, I think. But maybe what Fat Middle (?) said was right? Naan laire-coasse. My modem is 56k here, I won't stop in as often. Also, July First I leave for camp, returning the 6th of August. EDIT: On the Sindarin name, if you took ar and balan, balan would become valan, but I don't know if you only mutate words with prepositions and such. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?" Last edited by OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« : 06-22-2003 at 03:24 PM.

06-22-2003, 10:42 PM	#320
OrnelÃrÃ« MistÃ« Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Qoting Ardalambion: The extended infinitive may also function as a gerund, that is, a verbal noun the English equivalent of which is formed with the ending -ing. (This English ending is also used to form active participles, but they are quite distinct in Quenya, ending in -la instead.) An extended infinitive is seen to function as an gerund in the sentence lÃ¡ carita i hamil mÃ¡ra alasaila nÃ¡, "not to do [or, not doing] what you judge good would be unwise" (VT42:33). Another infinitival/gerundial ending is -iÃ«, as in the verbal noun tyaliÃ« "play(ing)" vs. the basic verb tyal- "to play". The final -a of an A-stem verb would apparently be omitted before the ending -iÃ« is added (and in the case of a verb ending in -ya, this entire ending would have to go, since **-yiÃ« would be an impossible combination). Combined with the dative ending -n "to, for", such gerunds in -iÃ« may express the meaning of English infinitives signifying "[in order] to do": The verb enyal- "recall" is attested in the form enyalien "[in order] to recall/commemorate", which Tolkien explained as a gerund inflected for dative (UT:317). And: The infinitive of a basic verb (e.g. quet- "to speak") shows the ending -Ã«, as in the example polin quetÃ« "I can speak" (VT41:6). A-stem verbs apparently show no special endings in the infinitive; the stem and the infinitive are simply identical (for instance, the verb lelya- "go" would have the infinitive lelya "to go"). Thus, the infinitive is identical in form to an (endingless) aorist. Quenya also has an extended infinitive which adds the ending -ta; when added to the infinitive of a basic verb, its ending -Ã« instead appears as -i-: While the simplest infinitive of the verb car- "to do, to make" is carÃ«, its extended infinitive is thus carita. The extended infinitive may receive pronominal endings denoting the object of the infinitive, e.g. -s "it" in caritas "to do it". Therer we go! Whatever happened to Almie? __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

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