10-02-2008, 06:45 PM | #281 |
Elf Lord
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*mutters*
unless you miss your plane, get caught in a hurricane, move up the wedding, catch a bad cold, mislay your voting card, have to drive a friend to the hospital... *sigh*
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10-02-2008, 06:49 PM | #282 |
Elf Lord
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Lol... well, for legal reasons the wedding CAN'T be moved up... even if the plane was missed I have plenty of time to catch another flight, there aren't any hurricanes in the forecast, a cold would not stop me from going out, I will safety pin my voting card to my shirt, and I don't have any friends ^^
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10-02-2008, 06:55 PM | #283 | ||
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Don't forget guys, that we have this excellent thread to discuss voting in the USA's upcoming election.
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10-02-2008, 07:11 PM | #284 |
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Does the genetically distinct and physiologically separate individual arising from the fusion of the gametes and happening to reside in the female get a vote?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-02-2008, 07:12 PM | #285 |
Elf Lord
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Can it express its opinion in any way?
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"Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind." |
10-02-2008, 07:15 PM | #286 |
Elven Maiden
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And is it of legal voting age?
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10-02-2008, 07:50 PM | #287 |
Elf Lord
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As this (hypothetical) individual is, we all were. As we are, so shall this one be if it is given O2, H2O, and nutrients.
Are all individuals under voting age subject to parental death decrees on that account? When is the individual worthy of life if not from conception onward, when it begins? Why?
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-02-2008, 10:43 PM | #288 |
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I just watched a video of Palin saying that she thinks abortion is wrong even in the cases of incest and rape, and everyone seemed to think that was really extremist and stupid, but I have to say, I understand where she's coming from a little bit. I think if you're anti-abortion you should be anti-abortion under all circumstances. It's still a life regardless of what circumstances brought it about. I can't see being generally anti-abortion except when it'll cause the woman more pain than normal, because I don't think you can make qualitative judgments like that based just on whether it was rape or not. I think that if you think it's ok to have an abortion in cases of rape and incest you should just allow it in all cases.
That said, I'm pro-choice. I just felt like sharing that with you. I don't know if it's already been brought up or not. |
10-02-2008, 10:44 PM | #289 | |
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In fact, both those for and against abortion really don't care what the father prefers one way or another. For those that are pro abortion, the body logic makes sense. But, for those that are against, what it really says is that they don't care all that much about anything but the child.
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10-02-2008, 11:40 PM | #290 | |
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Those of us who are pro-life simply want to protect the innocent, and speak up for those who have no voice.
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10-03-2008, 04:32 PM | #291 | |||
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So, "no one is suggesting we kill the mother," is beside the point in this debate. We all agree that pregnant women are people. What we do not agree on is if a fetus is a person. This is the fundamental difference between pro-life and pro-choice and one that can never be reconciled. If the fetus is a person, it would be wrong to kill it. If the fetus is not a person, it would be wrong to deny women choices over what to do with their own body. Of course the debate isn't really that simple, but this is the foundation of it all. This makes complete sense when one feels that the fetus is a person. Though I don't agree, I respect pro-life's stance on the issue - it's the only logical one if a fetus is a person.
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10-03-2008, 04:40 PM | #292 |
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I'm not sure you can be so cut and dried about it, Nurv. People who are "against killing people" may still be supportive of soldiers. They may still support the death penalty. They may oppose laws for gun safety that permit murders to occur. They may accept killing in self-defense. They may honor DNR orders.
It's not as simple as "all cells are baby, therefore losing cells is either death of baby or homicide".
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
10-03-2008, 04:46 PM | #293 |
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Nurv's post didn't seem that cut and dried to me. What both of you said is true and not contradictory.
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10-03-2008, 04:52 PM | #294 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
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10-03-2008, 07:17 PM | #295 | |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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As to the remark about the woman - that was a response to the statement that pro-life people only care about the baby. That's completely untrue, but always thrown around as if fact.
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10-03-2008, 11:03 PM | #296 | ||||
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Quote:
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But for me personhood is not about what it looks like. I just think that personhood happens at birth. Inked and I have already debated the point extensively though. I didn't really mean to rejoin the debate; I just wanted to reply to your post. But that's not how this thread works, is it?
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10-04-2008, 09:34 AM | #297 |
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Precisely, Nurv. One's understanding of the nature of humanity and its origination will be followed by one's choices on the basis of that understanding.
Logic, indeed.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
10-14-2008, 09:34 AM | #298 |
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I ran across this article, a first person account of a woman who had an abortion. For those who haven't heard such an account, maybe it'll help you know that "choice" isn't always about selfishness.
http://www.marieclaire.com/world/new...on=art&mag=mar
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That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May |
10-14-2008, 01:48 PM | #299 |
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So then are you saying your personal test for your beliefs regarding abortion is "looks like a person"?
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10-14-2008, 08:56 PM | #300 | |
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I have to admit that I have a hard time understanding how some people can be alright with abortion once a baby DOES "look like a person" though. And the issue is so HUGE! About 1,400,000 babies per year in America alone - which comes to about 3,800 per day. More than the victims of 9/11! (EACH DAY!) And about half those babies have African American mothers (and I read yesterday that about half of all pregnancies by African American mothers end in abortion). But the founder of Planned Parenthood was a known racist who advocated both abortion and sterilization to decrease the numbers of African Americans. A bit of a tangent, but pertinent, since Planned Parenthood performs so many abortions in America.
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