09-25-2009, 03:22 AM | #281 | |
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09-25-2009, 10:41 AM | #282 |
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I got to hear a REALLY high quality recording of myself singing in 'big' seminar yesterday.
It sounded pretty icky, BUT... I am not in good voice -at all- right now, and the technique was actually good overall in my opinion. The only thing that made it sound blech was that I totally forgot to keep my palate up, so it was dropped the entire time. That made my voice lack color, spin, and 'loft' of the tone... nothing was actually flat persay, but I was constantly hugging the underside of the pitch. BUT, it was not as bad as I thought it was, and I did manage to float the D4 instead of 'grabbing' it with my throat like I tend to do. So the recording is crap, but strangely enough I think it's actually a step in the right direction. There was a hint of a nice 'shimmer' in the tone, but because the palate was down it was just a hint instead of the 'real deal'. I'm not pleased with that performance, but I'm very happy with the technical progress that has been made . My teacher thinks it sounded 'pretty good', but I disagree. We both agree about the technical progress though, and she agreed that if I had managed to get my palate up it actually would've been a decent recording despite my vocal tiredness. Last edited by Tessar : 09-25-2009 at 10:42 AM. |
09-25-2009, 11:17 AM | #283 |
Lady of Andúnië
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Steps in the right direction are always a good thing
Are you still suffering from vocal fatigue from when you mentioned it before? Or is this a new bout with it? Is it something technical that's causing this, or just the present workload's demand on those cords? How is the new 'tiny sound' sensation coming along? Are you finding that this helps? It should be allowing you to experience less fatigue. Also your technique may be going through an adjustment period because you are no longer "overblowing".
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
09-25-2009, 11:53 AM | #284 | |
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Then there's also just tons of singing. In fact I was supposed to sing in the octet at a wedding tomorrow, and then the three Sunday services and an extra thing on Sunday... but I just e-mailed the director to say that my voice is totally gone. Which is an exaggeration, but if I tried to sing at those things I'm very much afraid I actually will totally lose my voice. I am trying to be more intelligent about using my voice. I feel really guilty about skipping out on those things, but I think I have to. Rehearsals, practicing (which I haven't been able to at all lately), sight singing, pirates rehearsals, voice lessons, school choir, church choir, singing in seminar... it's too much for my current technical level. The 'small' sensation is coming along fantastic! I'm happy with the direction it's headed in, and I'm sure that once I get my voice back 100% (or heck, even 70%) I'll be able to make more progress with it. One good thing about the recording, despite my lack of 'ring', is that my voice still carried very nicely on that small sound. It was thin, due to vocal problems, but it wasn't a 'wimpy' thin, just a tired thin . One thing my teacher and I had a brief discussion about is that she wants to basically go in and get at the root of my vocal problems, which I think is great. Hence the sort of 'starting over' approach of keeping everything very small for a while. She thinks that in a few months I'll be able to open it up much more. I'm hoping for sooner, but I'm not going to push it . I almost laughed at a guy the other day, though. He's one of the ones who likes to critique other people's voices... so he came up to me and was talking about how I had sung well at seminar, which was very kind of him. Then he ruined it all by saying, "Now I kind of get your voice better. You need to sing lots more German Lieder." Then he proceeded to try to tell me that when I'm more advanced there are several cycles I should try to sing. I didn't take him seriously at all... for starters, this guy has the vibrato of a bellowing billygoat. Secondly that statement about 'now I "get" your voice' was just ridiculous... It makes me imagine him sitting at home scratching his head and saying, "I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND HIS VOICE AT ALL!" |
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09-25-2009, 01:37 PM | #285 | ||||||
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..He may actually be onto something. If you are indeed a lyric baritone, then German Lieder will be great for you. Here's some inspiration for you from Schubert's Winterreise.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 09-25-2009 at 01:41 PM. |
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09-25-2009, 03:01 PM | #286 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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Oh I'm sure he wasn't wrong. Art songs are usually very good in my voice, if I may inaccurately generalize and lump lieder and etc. into that category. I actually really dislike the Winterreis cycle, but I'm a big Shumann and Schubert fan. More Schumann than Schubert, honestly.
I just get annoyed because people at my school don't know how to say, "Great job!" without tacking on their little pedagogical ideas. At the opera workshop people did NOT come up to you and go, "you really need to fix etc., etc. about your voice!" like they want to at school. Frankly the people at the workshop were more humble. They told you if they liked your voice, and if they didn't then the subject just never came up. I really know what my friend means when he says that every summer he hates coming back to school. The workshop was such an amazing 'professional' experience that it makes my school feel like a total amateur dump. :-/ I will say that even if I didn't get along with my teacher as well as I do, I would adore her anyways for her organization. When I show up we do not waste time. We're singing, and unless we have something we need to discuss we're focused on the music. I usually come in with a couple of questions and comments about how my practicing has been going, and then we launch into the singing. She even keeps her music in stacks sorted by day/student, so if she needs to check over something in my music she can just grab it out of her stack and she's ready to roll... usually teachers have to go digging through their massive shelves of rep. |
09-25-2009, 04:42 PM | #287 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Hmmm...am I misremembering, or were you complaining before about people just saying you were really good, and not having anything constructive to say?
I love some of the songs from Winterreise, though I'm still having trouble "getting" the work as a whole. I'm sure it's there to get, I just need to figure out how to approach it. I have Ian Bostridge's CD, and occasionally lust over a rendition by Nathalie Stutzmann, my favourite contralto.
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09-25-2009, 04:54 PM | #288 | |||
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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09-25-2009, 07:24 PM | #289 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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I was. It's a different situation though. This guy approached me in the hallway, and he is not a student of my teacher. I was complaining about the people in my voice studio not giving me critique when we were in the actual 'critiquing' period of the seminar.
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09-25-2009, 08:24 PM | #290 |
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Yes. There is a proper time and place for this, most definitely!
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
09-26-2009, 10:45 AM | #291 |
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High F's before breakfast
I've often heard it said that the sopranos who can roll out of bed with a working stratosphere are the ones who should be using it.
I guess that's me I was running through O Zittre nicht before breakfast. I've actually had people argue over me before as to whether i should be singing Pamina or the Queen of the Night I seem to be one of those sopranos who can sing both. I've stuck with Pamina because it's a walk in the park. What soprano doesn't have a consistent B flat? You basically can't mess up. But if i dare myself to go the extra mile, the Queen is in there, just waiting to be debuted Now, don't get me wrong - this isn't to say that i'm a lazy singer. I never have been and never will be. I don't avoid performing the super-high stuff in public 'because it's hard' (and it's not any harder, really - it just requires more of a trust fall). What i'm saying here is that i tend to be safely conservative about what repertoire i offer. I tend to stick to things that i know will make me look good, and leave experiments to be done in practice. But am i selling myself short, missing out on something because of that tendency to play it safe, or is doing so actually wisdom? Should i be more daring? I know that i have the notes, but trusting them is the scary part (a teacher once told me that i had a fear of my high notes and this held me back - it's a mind thing). At the same time, i've also heard people say that just because you have the notes, it doesn't mean you should be using them. Because of this, i've erred on the side of caution. My question is basically, when is being cautious actually holding you back? Where do we draw the line? I love playing in the stratosphere But i've been apprehensive about putting it out there 'on display'. I have a fear of becoming one of those singers who thinks, just because she has the notes, that she can do anything and starts performing all sorts of crazy stuff before she's ready.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 09-26-2009 at 11:34 AM. |
09-26-2009, 10:20 PM | #292 |
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Sounds to me like you need a coach you can trust . I say one you can trust specifically because some coaches would say, "Oh if you have the notes just sing it!" Or if it just sounds good then they might still tell you to sing it, where as maybe you would 'shine' in other rep.
I hope that tonight I made a small technical breakthrough. I did a bit of vocalizing today, and I wasn't very happy with the results. Since I was feeling depressed I went for a jog around the block to try to work out my frustration. After that I was walking to cool down, and I decided to do the 'head up' exercise my summer workshop movement teacher had showed me. I suddenly realized that other than feeling some discomfort from the stretch of my throat, I realized that I actually felt really physically good when I moved that way... I don't know why, but that sort of gave me a 'lightbulb' moment. When I got back home I sang the first little phrase from a random piece of music with my head in that position, and I thought, "Oh, that sounded horrible. It was breathy, thin, and out of control." When I played it back I was shocked to hear a lot of color and spin in the sound. It also made me think of my teacher saying, "You are unconsciously grabbing at your voice in an attempt to control it. When you think it's out of control it will probably be correct." I think all of this time I've been tilting my head too far down in an attempt to prevent my head from tilting upwards. I played around with my head position without singing, and I noticed that there is a small window where my larynx is in perfect placement... just a little too far down and it's like my larynx gets tucked 'under', and then if I tilt my head up a little too much it rises and gets shoved forward. But in that particular small area... where it actually almost DOES look like I'm tilting my head up... my larynx is actually perfectly balanced. At least that's what I think. We'll see what my teacher says on Tuesday. It's just weird to me, because when it seems to be in a good singing position it really looks like my head is almost tilted up. But then again I do have a pretty long neck, so maybe that's part of it? Maybe my head needs to be a little higher than most peoples. I'll bet I need to start doing daily neck stretches... the muscles in the front of my throat are probably shortened from the way I usually hold my neck. Last edited by Tessar : 09-26-2009 at 10:21 PM. |
09-27-2009, 02:17 AM | #293 | ||
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All of this about your larynx position is interesting. Please tell us what your teacher has to say. I don't know much about it except that those who tend to be more physically conscious of their larynx are usually guys so this is something i don't relate to.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline |
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09-27-2009, 01:19 PM | #294 | ||
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Or maybe you really are more of a Pamina. Again, the 'famous' coach could tell you . We talked about that at the summer workshop... basically all of the teachers said that once you're ready to, you actually -do- need to go audition for those 'high risk' people, because you'll get to a point where only their expertise can help you decide. Quote:
I think girls and guys probably have equal problems with the larynx, just on guys it's more obvious because the larynx is easier to see. Today I'm going to go see the seven finalists in the SW regional met auditions. I'm excited, because I'm sure it's going to be some amazing singing! I really hope my friend does well. He actually recently won a singing competition that pitted him against what I assume are most of these same people, so... he might actually have a shot at this despite his age . Then straight after that we have Pirates rehearsal... supposedly from 6-11, but I'm praying that they'll let us out a little early. 5 hours of rehearsal is a bit ridiculous considering that we all have school tomorrow, and some of us (ahem... ME!!!) have 8 a.m. classes to attend. I got some sleeping aids so that I can get to sleep as soon as I get home. I took some last night, and I really like it. It's herbal stuff so it doesn't knock you out, but it helps you get relaxed enough that you actually can lay down and fall asleep very quickly. I assume I'll be using it all this week... then after that I should be good without it . Last edited by Tessar : 09-27-2009 at 01:22 PM. |
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09-27-2009, 01:24 PM | #295 |
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Oh, I forgot to mention. I'm going to go ahead and give up the 'secret teacher' thing... I'll probably see him every once in a while to coach, but if my official teacher is going to be here for at least two years, and considering that she IS very, very good... I think it will be in my best interest to stick to her .
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09-27-2009, 01:53 PM | #296 | |||||
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When people who know their stuff hear me, "light" and "lyrical" is usually what they say. So... Quote:
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I wish i could see her again The fact that she's 2 hours away makes it unrealistic to stick with her on a regular basis. Btw, she's also the one who helped me get Pamina all set to go for that 'high-risk' audition. Last time i consulted with her, she was suggesting Massenet's Manon. I'm guessing from this that she wanted me going in the more lyrical direction Manon does need some stratosphere, but it's not her main selling point - it's a light lyric role, like Pamina. Quote:
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Pace yourself for that rehearsal, ok? And i can't say as i condone taking anything to help you sleep (have you run this by a doctor?), just don't get addicted or anything. (I'm not telling you what to do here, i just care. )
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 09-27-2009 at 01:54 PM. |
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09-27-2009, 03:19 PM | #297 | ||
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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I was thinking the same thing, Tessar. Perhaps it's ok if it's only making you fall asleep, not making you stay asleep - but be very, very cautious. Can't you relax in other ways instead?
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09-27-2009, 04:15 PM | #298 | |
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The Queen is a very dramatic character. She's also evil It requires someone who can pull off her bombastic personality. Vocally, it's quite the same. Her first aria is much more lilting and legato (at least in the A section) because she's trying to appear to someone as if she's good. In her second (and most famous) aria, she's having a fit Basically, she's doing the vocal equivalent of stamping her feet and yelling at someone. It requires a voice that not only has the notes, but a certain 'cords of steel' dramatic edge to it. For a voice that's more inclined toward legato, a 'vengeance aria' like this can be exhausting. I like the Queen's first aria because it has the high, soaring range, nice legato A section, and fun coloratura B section topped off with a little high F but it's not the 'voice killer' that her second aria is! In terms of what kinds of dramatic and vocal demands they require, these roles more or less correspond with the two sopranos in The Impresario. While i am physically capable of singing both of these roles because i have all the notes, i would *never* audition for Madame Herz Miss Silverpeal is much more my speed! And, lots of sopranos who sing Silverpeal have high E's and F's, they just don't go in for the more dramatic characters. The Queens and Herz's of the world just require a certain dramatic quality that, while they may possess the range, the natural Paminas and Silverpeals just don't have. ETA, hahahaha, it's occured to me that i've been answering all of my own questions!
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 09-27-2009 at 05:10 PM. |
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09-27-2009, 06:21 PM | #299 |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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Explaining something to someone else is often a very good way of clarifying it to oneself!
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09-27-2009, 06:54 PM | #300 | |
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I'm always tempted by that repertoire because i have the notes, and it is fun to play with But i think 'appropriate repertoire' goes beyond simply having the range. There are many other vocal qualities to consider, not to mention the whole 'temperament' thing. Similarly i remember working through Je suis Titania from Mignon. I got to the point where it was all coached, memorized, etc. But when i took it to my teacher, she kept saying it was missing something. "You're not entirely comfortable with this piece as a performer", she said. And it was true. Don't get me wrong, i love the aria - it's just so impressive and cute! And with my range, i thought, this is exactly the kind of stuff i should be offering. But my teacher was right. It just wasn't clicking. There was something about it that clashed with me, the person, the performer. It was a matter of temperament. To this day i have abandoned the piece, only pulling it out occasionally when i want to give my French diction and Eb6 a workout! It's interesting that our voices are so heavily wired into our temperament. But when you think about it, it makes sense. Personally i'd rather be pouring out my heart and soul into Ach, ich fühl's or Lascia ch'io pianga. Neither of them go above a Bb (though i often interpolate a C into the latter during the da capo), but i've moved people with these pieces. There's a certain 'home base' where i tend to always come back to, if that makes any sense. There's nothing like hitting Lascia after too much tinkering around with crazy stuff. That voice/temperament connection feels right and good. At the end of the day, i need to remind myself to "bloom where i'm planted". Trying new repertoire is a lot like trying on gowns - they can be the correct style and size, but entirely the wrong color.
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" ...But the Exiles on the shores of the sea, if they turned towards the West in the desire of their hearts, spoke of Mar-nu-Falmar that was whelmed in the waves, Akallabêth the Downfallen, Atalantë in the Eldarin tongue." "Ye who believe in affection that hopes, and endures, and is patient, Ye who believe in the beauty and strength of woman's devotion, List to the mournful tradition still sung by the pines of the forest ... " ~ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, Evangeline Last edited by Voronwen : 09-27-2009 at 07:05 PM. |
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