02-26-2005, 02:34 AM | #281 | |||||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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That's all I'm trying to point out - that neither one of us are concerned with other people's acceptable sexual acts, but that we BOTH are concerned with what we think are HARMFUL acts of others involving sexual behavior, such as rape. We may differ as to what we think is acceptable and non-harmful, that's all. We're also both concerned with harmful acts of others that do NOT involve sexual behavior, but that wasn't what your original quote was on. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-26-2005, 02:50 AM | #282 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Again, since you clarified to "normative", as far as I'm concerned, the whole issue is cleared up, at least as far as I'm concerned. Both you and I think that other people should NOT be concerned with people's normative sexual behavior. We just differ on the definition of "normative". I'm assuming you meant to insult those who thought Lawrence was a bad decision with the "minding other people's sexual behavior " statement - am I right? But since you clarified your statement to "normative", your statement can no longer be an insult, since everyone acts the same way.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 02-26-2005 at 02:51 AM. |
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02-26-2005, 03:09 AM | #283 | ||||
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Note that I have substituted "government" now for "people" Since that might have been construed as meaning that I really cared what other people think. It is certainly their right to say whatever they think. It is not however, their right to impose their thinking on me or anyone else by trying to legislate morality. Note also that I have included the term normative. Which will perhaps clarify again that we are talking about normative sex not involving coercion by violence or authoritarian means. Or any other method of coercion that you may decide you want to interject. continued....
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-26-2005, 03:10 AM | #284 | ||||||||
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Again with the 8k word limit. I'm just going to have to stop being so verbose and start killing tangental points.
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However the point is do you object to children learning about the relative dangers of sex, and the difference between safe(er) sex and unsafe sex and the methods and differences? Because that is information they may not know, and desperately need to know. Because there are things out there that are MUCH more interesting to stick your fingers in than pots.... Quote:
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The more information available, the better the chances of avoiding such a "crash". Abstinenece only education is like teaching children about driving, but neglecting to tell them about things like speed limits and stop signs... Quote:
It is also, while I'm at it, totally a cultural phenomenon. There are existing cultures without marriage that function perfectly well. Which again leads to the conclusion that since it is a cultural phenomenon, and at most what we regard as "modern western" culture extends back to the hellenic period, it's definately "recent". Quote:
But it's probably wishful thinking that our society could be like that. We are too fractured as a society to last much longer than another couple of hundred years. And far too big to engage in such tribal behaviors. Hell we can't even figure out how to get single mothers to be committed to their children, much less an entire community.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-26-2005, 03:18 AM | #285 | |
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-26-2005, 03:55 AM | #286 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And "government" is made up of people, anyway.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 02-26-2005 at 03:56 AM. |
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02-26-2005, 03:57 AM | #287 | |||||||||
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And where do you get that I'm stating that my motivations have no basis in fear? Of course they are. I'm afraid that reactive individuals want to stifle social freedoms and censor important information that teens should have. I may have opinions, but If you think they are unfounded then you need to ask for an explination. Quote:
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And you base this opinion on what? Your own unfounded opinion? Well, I know how much weight to give to that! [/QUOTE] Are you asking for an explination for the underlying reasoning for my opinion? I've already explained what a fear response is. And you probably know what a taboo is. Oh, I get it, you're trying to be insulting! All this explaining for nothing.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-26-2005 at 04:57 AM. Reason: damned tags |
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02-26-2005, 04:02 AM | #288 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'll leave inky to comment on the rest - too late now - got to get some sleep!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 02-26-2005 at 04:05 AM. |
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02-26-2005, 04:24 AM | #289 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 02-26-2005 at 04:51 AM. |
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02-26-2005, 04:51 AM | #290 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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To answer your last sentence, no and no. Would you like to be next on the "hot seat" on the "why you believe what you believe" thread? I'd love to ask you questions on your beliefs and learn more about them! [/offtopic]
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-26-2005, 04:52 AM | #291 | |||||||||
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I'm only going to address new points lest the entmoot server burst into flames.
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In fact, quite a few sexual practices I consider not to be normal, I don't want to see the governemnt regulate. I don't CARE if the man wants to dress up in women's clothing and hump black leather boots, I don't think the government should regulate it (and I certainly don't want to KNOW about it). As long as there's no violence involved in obtaining the boots, I'd just as soon not think about it. And I only omitted the insult for brevities sake. I still think that people who want to regulate ... for the sake of clarity I'll say .... what other people do in the privacy of their own homes .... are reactionary snooping busybodies. Quote:
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Consensual is an adjective that I'm going to apply to a WIDE range of behaviors. If you, for example, take money out of my pocket, that's stealing. If however I told you it was ok, that makes it consensual, and NOT stealing! Does that clarify matters? Quote:
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Normative probably includes some behaviors that you find objectionable. To be compeltely honest it probably includes some that I also find objectionable. I don't want to know what grown men do with furry blue suits, I object to even knowing about it. But judging by the number of unavoidable porn site ads about such things it quite likely qualifies as a normative behavior, at least by his point. I'm going to have to state again for the record that I don't care what other people do in their sex lives, even if I find it objectionable. I don't care if they trade sex for money, swap wives, or (shudder) dress up in blue suits for hot man sex, if they aren't forcing me or anyone else to watch it, or participate in it, in other-words it is consensual (and remember consensual is not a term limited to sexual practices), no coercion in other words, then it's not anyone elses business, and especially not the governments business.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-26-2005 at 05:56 AM. Reason: The dark lord does not DO spelling.... |
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02-26-2005, 05:29 AM | #292 | |||||
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cul·ture "culture" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (klchr) n. 1. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought. 2. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty. 3. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture. 4. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization. Note especially number 4. bi·as Audio pronunciation of "bias" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bs) n. 1. A line going diagonally across the grain of fabric: Cut the cloth on the bias. 2. 1. A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment. 2. An unfair act or policy stemming from prejudice. Note especially 2.1 and lets not for the sake of polite discussion go into 2.2 Everyone has cultural bias. It's unavoidable. It's one of the reasons I find things like child abuse abhorrent. But in being objective, I try to be rational, and think of other reasons why something may be harmful, other than my inherant distaste for something or what other people have told me, or what has been handed down as tradition or scripture... It's not hard to think of why child abuse is damaging or harmful, it inhibits development and passes such behavior on to future generations. Those are empirically demonstrable reasons. That's what I mean by the difference between cultural bias and objective. If I can't find a compelling objective reason for something being harmful, then I have to state up front that I am basing my opion on my own bias. On the rare occasions that I bother to talk about such things on this board, I try to remember to do that. Quote:
Because otherwise I'm going to point out that references to scripture or traditions or inculcated preferences are cultural bias. Now you may THINK that is an insult, but I'm going to have to remind you that cultural bias is something that you have to work very hard to avoid, and as such it is not something I normally go around lightly insulting people about... Unless they are snooping busybodies wanting the government to spy on me that is... Quote:
I'm starting to understand what happened to the Roman Republic before Augustus solidified the Imperial model. And it is not a comfortable thought at all. Democracy works best when everyone has all the available information so that they can make informed decisions. But there has been a disturbing trend lately away from government disclosure. Coupled with the disturbing tactics in the most recent US Presidential election, and then again in the Ukraine, one could only wish someone would discover a better system. Quote:
I don't view that as government made up of "the people". I mean, I think they're human. They certainly screw up enough....
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-26-2005 at 05:41 AM. Reason: DAMN those pesky tags |
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02-26-2005, 05:37 AM | #293 | |
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-26-2005, 05:48 AM | #294 | |
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-26-2005, 01:50 PM | #295 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Aw, c'mon! I was on the hotseat for weeks, and took ALL questions tossed at me!
If you feel you can't logically defend your position, tho, that's another thing ... (just teasing!) Seriously, I think it would be interesting and fun. But let me tell you, the people in the hotseat know ahead of time that they will be challenged with no-holds-barred questions (politely, of course - I"m the thread starter, and them's my rules!) and asked to explain and defend their worldview and give good reasons why they hold it. If you don't feel like fielding questions on your worldview, then don't get in the hotseat. If you're up to taking all sorts of questions, and thinking them over honestly and carefully and with an open mind, and responding to them for us, we'd love to have you!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 02-26-2005 at 01:52 PM. |
02-26-2005, 01:55 PM | #296 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I thought you were referring to culture as in our modern culture and its associated biases. But I'm willing to work with the other definition of culture, as long as you're willing to admit that your beliefs are part of a culture, too.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-26-2005, 08:00 PM | #297 |
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Well, Christianity is in fact supraCultural on the historical evidence and existent world data. It is not however a single monolithic entity in a cultural mode. It is a mere influence over varied cultures. There is no dominant form of Christian culture in the world, though there is a dominance of mere Christian belief. The Roman Catholic Church would be a branch of Christianity with the most influence in the most cultures in most people's minds, I suppose. But the Greek Orthodox, Anglicans, and Protestants and Pentecostals are branches with cultural influences.
Thus, to use Jesus' metaphor, He is the Vine, we are the branches. But if you put a Pentecostal cultural influence next to a Greek Orthodox one, you might have much trouble identifying them. There are no "cookie cutter" Christian cultures, howsoever much you might wish it so, Blackheart. There are consistent moral teachings and foundations and beliefs. These generally result in identifiable behaviours within each society/culture in which Christians live. They result in high ethical and moral values in "practicing" Christians. Cultural "christians" are living off the legacy of formerly Christian influenced cultures and much of what is thought is the mere remnant of Christian ethical and moral teaching which has been abandoned in favor of "relativism". As the basis erodes in "Christian" Europe and "Christian" America, the "Christian" West is culturally less christian and technically post-modern. I have seen the world according to Nietsche and it is not an enticing view even when compared with Machiavelli!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-26-2005 at 08:03 PM. |
02-28-2005, 03:18 AM | #298 | |
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-28-2005, 03:21 AM | #299 | |
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-28-2005, 03:31 AM | #300 | ||
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I apologize for simplifying the matter, but it really doesn't change much. I could have said CONSERVATIVE culture, and it would have made absolutely no difference, even though there are many different types of of conservatives. All cultures have sub-cultures, and are themselves made up of individuals, so of course there is a RANGE of opinions. But there is a common base. Quote:
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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