02-13-2006, 12:21 PM | #281 | |
Andúril the White
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03-26-2006, 09:40 PM | #282 | ||||
Elf Lord
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I watched a play performed today where the speaker at one point exclaimed, "given time, who will remember the sound of our voices?" Who will remember our personalities? They might remember us for our achievements for a time, but given enough time, even those will fade away, except in a few very rare cases. Given enough time, even our world will cease to exist, and then who will remember us humans? Short-term impact is nice and has short-term meaning, but in the end, it's all meaningless unless one believes in an afterlife. So this is one unpleasant aspect of the situation. Here's an even less pleasant aspect, however: Us humans are innately corrupt. You have said, "life is haphazard". Granted that we are thrown about by haphazard circumstances and also are corrupt beings ourselves (or "decent people", the PC term. Decent according to our own society's current standards ), the chances of us making even a short-term difference that is not as negative as it is positive is very slim. Humanity is lost, flailing in a tide of seeming pointlessness and struggles to do what's right. Even many of the Nazis were doing what they believed was right. So were the Carthaginians while they burned their babies. So are we now while we murder millions of our children through abortion, IMO. So what do I hope for? I don't believe that meaninglessness is real. I also believe God has provided an answer to human corruption. I also believe that God guiding humans with his wisdom and his power can bring a heck of a lot better of results than we can achieve through our own effort alone. Doesn't that make sense? Assuming that God exists, of course.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-26-2006 at 11:57 PM. |
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03-26-2006, 10:15 PM | #283 | |||
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Go Pelagianism! I wonder what Pelagius thought about gay marriage? Results: You scored as Pelagianism. You are a Pelagian. You reject ideas about man's fallen human nature and believe that as a result we are able to fully obey God. You are the first Briton to contribute significantly to Christian thought, but you're still excommunicated in 417. Pelagianism - 92% Chalcedon compliant - 75% Monophysitism - 67% Apollanarian - 50% Nestorianism - 50% Modalism - 33% Monarchianism - 25% Arianism - 25% Gnosticism - 17% Albigensianism - 8% Donatism - 8% Adoptionist - 0% Socinianism - 0% Docetism - 0% edited to add: That's 417 AD.
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03-26-2006, 10:27 PM | #284 |
of the House of Fëanor
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I'm so glad you quoted Inked, there, Nurvi, because it confirms what I've always asserted - Inked can post links to quizzes he's obviously taken,and expects us to do his online quizzes, yet when we post quizzes and invite him to participate, he claims that it is not possible for him to do so, with whatever lame excuse he tosses our way.
Yeah, that's right, Inked, there are some things around here I just will not let go, even though I'm sure you wish I would just forget. I'm enjoying this opportunity to call you on your - well, you know the term. T-H-I-N-K S-L-O-W-L-Y, Inked. Yeah, that's right. Lotsy doesn't forget. But I'm going to take this quiz, for the fun of it. I'm sure to be shown to be a nice, honest, simple down to earth heretic.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
03-26-2006, 10:32 PM | #285 | ||
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I wonder if this quiz has a non-heretical option, or if you are only shown the type of heretic you most closely approximate.
Inked, I know you're busy with your real job and family and stuff, but I'm really curious to see what you'd get. The quiz takes three minutes, tops. Please! I'm not asking so I can be like "Ha, you're a heretic!!" in the gay marriage thread later, but just because I'm genuinely curious. Lotesse, I'm curious as to your heretical results as well. Maybe you'll join me in Pelagianism.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-26-2006, 10:52 PM | #286 |
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Me:
You scored as Chalcedon compliant. You are Chalcedon compliant. Congratulations, you're not a heretic. You believe that Jesus is truly God and truly man and like us in every respect, apart from sin. Officially approved in 451. And for this source's other quiz, which theologian are you... You scored as John Calvin. (I'm not surprised!) Much of what is now called Calvinism had more to do with his followers than Calvin himself, and so you may or may not be committed to TULIP, though God's sovereignty is all important.
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Mike nodded. A sombre nod. The nod Napoleon might have given if somebody had met him in 1812 and said, "So, you're back from Moscow, eh?". Interested in C.S. Lewis? Visit the forum dedicated to one of Tolkien's greatest contemporaries. Last edited by Mercutio : 03-26-2006 at 10:57 PM. |
03-26-2006, 11:51 PM | #287 |
of the House of Fëanor
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This is a silly kind of quiz for me to take, becaue the bottom line is, I believe Jesus Christ was an outstanding, brilliant thinker and leader who was born, lived and died a couple thousand years ago in the middle east. Not for a moment do I believe any of the God stuff, so the god/'God deity questions are lost on me, and that's what the entire quiz is tailored toward - how deep or shallow a person's belief in a deity or deities is.
This is what I scored: Socinian. You deny the doctrine of the Trinity because you think God exists in a simplified unity. Since this makes the Incarnation impossible, you see Christ's work as simply exemplary. Socinian n: 1: an adherent of an early Protestant movement that denied the divinity of Christ and held rationalistic views of sin and salvation. 2: an adherent of similar theological views, esp. : a a Christian who rejects orthodox Christian doctrines of the divinity of Christ, the Trinity and original sin; b a Unitarian. 3: an occasional journal of liberal religion, liberal politics, outdoor recreation, and other musings.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 03-26-2006 at 11:54 PM. |
03-26-2006, 11:54 PM | #288 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-26-2006, 11:54 PM | #289 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Hee hee! Here we go...
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
03-26-2006, 11:59 PM | #290 |
of the House of Fëanor
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Pelagianism
This guy Pelagius was onto something...
Pelagianism derives its name from Pelagius who lived in the 5th century A.D. and was a teacher in Rome, though he was British by birth. It is a heresy dealing with the nature of man. Pelagius, whose family name was Morgan, taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God. He denied original sin, the doctrine that we have inherited a sinful nature from Adam. He said that Adam only hurt himself when he fell and all of his descendents were not affected by Adam's sin. Pelagius taught that a person is born with the same purity and moral abilities as Adam was when he was first made by God. He taught that people can choose God by the exercise of their free will and rational thought. God's grace, then, is merely an aid to help individuals come to Him. Pelagius was definitely onto something right, here.
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Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
03-27-2006, 12:17 AM | #291 | |||||
"The Bomb"
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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03-27-2006, 12:21 AM | #292 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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frankly, I think only those without children can believe that people are born without a sin nature!
(funny, but entirely serious!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
03-27-2006, 12:22 AM | #293 | |
"The Bomb"
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? |
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03-27-2006, 01:19 AM | #294 | |
Spaceman Spiff
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Bombadillo, you are the bomb!
I'm not going to make a long winded post. If it is possible to get winded while posting. Something for the philosophy thread maybe. Anyway, we were not put here by God, I'm going to italicize the name cause each person has a different name for their deity, we were not given this planet. We took it. In the begining we were mearly scavengers looking for food and trying to keep our species alive. We took this planet when the greater species died out and was no longer a threat to us and we could evovle into something unafaid of the other creatures around us. Quote:
I'll stop here for now and wait for a reply.
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03-27-2006, 01:33 AM | #295 | ||||||||||
Elf Lord
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This seems a most horrible point of view, to me. What convinced you that this is the state of reality? And wouldn't it be smart to check out alternative possibilities? Quote:
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Carthaginians believed they were doing right when they threw their children into the flames to their idols. Romans thought they were doing right when they sent gladiators into the arena (or at least didn't think they were doing wrong). But we don't have to get into life and death issues. There are many others which are disputed. Making a difference for good is hard to do when you don't know for sure what good is, and I expect it's even harder when you don't even believe it exists. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 01:48 AM | #296 |
Head of the Department for the Invention and Propagation of Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice!
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For what its worth, I agree with Lief. Evidence everywhere, if you search for it. I don't think there is definite proof of which religion is the right one, but there is every proof that God exists... I can think of so many arguments, but I can't really put it into words, but since Lief does it so much better, I'll just sit here, listen to it all, and nod when I agree...
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"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" Death thought about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice." -Terry Pratchett, Sourcery Join the Harry Potter discussion, click here |
03-27-2006, 02:14 AM | #297 | |||||
Elf Lord
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But saying it all exists in such glory, organization, splendor and beauty because it was designed that way makes sense. Yes, it is a leap of faith, if that is the only evidence for the existence of a God that exists. But saying that all that is, in all its splendor, got that way out of chance is a much larger leap. As I said in my previous post, if any religion has even the smallest shred of evidence to support it, that's more than atheism ever could have. Atheism never could and never will have a shred of evidence to support it. It's absolute, total blind faith, and faith in pointlessness and hopelessness too, I might add, which makes no sense at all to me. Why bother having such absolute faith in that? I don't get it. Atheism isn't reason; it's the blindest of blind faith. If one is going to have complete blind faith in something, why not have blind faith in something with a bit more cheer and hope to it? Quote:
According to the Genesis account, man was created on the sixth day. This is after the major creation events had all occurred. Therefore man could not have been an eye witness of those previous days. He must have heard about them from God. And how does God commonly speak to his people? He speaks to them in many ways, but two very common ways throughout the Bible are dreams and visions. The Book of Revelation is almost entirely one big vision. There is hardly anything in it that isn't vision, and it includes the symbolic use of the number 7 many, many times. So it isn't a big leap at all to say that the seven days account was also a vision, and 7 was used symbolically. Furthermore, there is the logistical factor that the sun was only created on the fourth day. 24 hour days are calculated based on the sun, and if it didn't exist, there wouldn't be any reason to believe the days were 24 hour. If those days weren't necessarily 24 hour, why should one think the days after the sun was created were 24 hour? So technically it doesn't make sense to say the 7 days were literal, and there is a completely scripturally consistent explanation at hand for seven days being described in Genesis. One can still believe the Bible is literal and take the Genesis account as partly nonliteral, because it must have been communicated by God rather than experienced by man, and could easily have been communicated through a vision or dream. Quote:
Or to prove your own comments about us having learned what we did all on our own without God's help . And by the way, I can offer you some evidence that God actually did teach us things in the far past. There are parts of the Hebrew Old Testament which contain sound medical advice which has been ignored by modern physicians for centuries. In the Old Testament, for example, it says that people who are sick should be isolated from communities, so that the disease won't spread. That's a teaching that our modern medical practices use, but which is only a relatively recent discovery. Also, in the Old Testament, the Lord advised his people to wash their hands in running water before treating injuries. That's a medical practice that the Israelites used, but which hasn't been used since them in any societies until the late 1800s. These aren't proof of God. They are an evidence though that people may have heard from him, long ago, and adjusted their lives accordingly. There are other things in the Old Testament I'd also like to point out, passages in the first chapters of Genesis that indicate a strong understanding of reality that humans, of their own knowledge, could not have known. The Bible says that early in Earth's history, the waters of the Earth were "all in one place." Later on it says, "It was in the days of Peleg that the lands divided." The Bible also says that God cursed the serpent that deceived Eve by saying it would "crawl on its belly and eat dust." What does this imply about the reptile earlier? In order for crawling on its belly to be a punishment, it would have to earlier have not been crawling on its belly. It would have had to have been standing upright. The Bible acknowledges the existence of reptiles that stand upright- the dinosaurs. Also, the Bible in many places says that living things were made out of dust. However, it also says in one place that "the land created the creatures according to their kinds." The land created the creatures according to their kinds. Modern science does accept that the land created the creatures according to their kinds- through changing environment animals are supposed to have evolved, correct? I know that none of these things is proof of God. They are strong indicators, however. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 02:49 AM | #298 | ||
Elf Lord
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Feel free to respond in posts that last forever, Faramir and Bombadillo! I know I'm taking that liberty .
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1) He's an artist. The beauty would not exist without an artist behind it. 2) He's unbelievably powerful. 3) He's unbelievably intelligent. 4) It indicates that we mean something to God. The universe exists in such a way that life could exist. There are countless tiny variations to the universe's structure which would have made it impossible for it to sustain life. If even one of these tiny differences had occurred, life could not exist. The probability that we could have gotten a life-sustaining universe by chance is so low it is not worth mentioning. This counts as both an evidence for the existence of God and an evidence that life means a great deal to him, since he specifically made the universe in just such a way that life could exist. Therefore we matter a great deal to God. 5) Perhaps God is loving. This I put as a perhaps because I haven't yet thought of enough evidence to really fill the idea out as much as I'd like. But we live in a beautiful world with more than enough resources to take care of all of us. We each have five senses and great physical and IMO spiritual beauty. Most of the catastrophes we experience come from our devising rather than nature, but as Blackheart pointed out in the Danté's Inferno thread, often pain and death, horrible though they are, also have lessons to teach us that benefit us as individuals and as a species. These things indicate a loving God.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-27-2006 at 03:10 AM. |
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03-27-2006, 03:04 AM | #299 | ||||||||
"The Bomb"
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FCoG, thanks!
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And everybody makes an impact. They don't even have to try. Someone will remember you, and you'll change the way they think, maybe just a tiny bit, or maybe you'll change the course of just one day in their life. But in any case, you affect someone. Then they, a little bit different because of your memory, affect the other people they encounter, and your legacy lives on forever even though no one gives you credit. Worthless, pointless? Still, I guess so. But while I exist, I might as well make it a happy existence. Happy meaning full of smiles and platonian good. That's the least I could do. But that's dangerously boring.* So I also try to spread goodness to other people. It probably doesn't matter. Destructive attitudes probably don't matter either, but destroying things all the time is less fun and never leads to anything good. Quote:
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(I'm wholeheartedly against abortion though, for the record. Unlike the legal courts and unlike the Church, I admit I have no idea and no authority to say at what point human life starts, but an embryo promises to be a person. That's an undeniable fact. When you kill it, you're just as bad a murderer.) Quote:
At the risk of sounding like I'm reproaching myself, maybe "haphazard" was the wrong word. "Unpredictable" would be more like it. *I plan on elaborating the starred part tomorrow. There's also something potentially misleading about my posts that I should probably clear up, but later.
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Could it be that one path to enlightenment leads through insanity? Last edited by Bombadillo : 03-27-2006 at 03:07 AM. |
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03-27-2006, 03:16 AM | #300 | ||||||
Spaceman Spiff
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If humans were to take a creature from say, Austarilia, where they have lived for thousands of years, and place them in a strange environment, say, Cannada, (not that Canada is strange, well that's a different topic ) would god have to teach them how to adapt? Wouldn't this creature either learn themselves what's going on or parish? Sure, if they made it, some would say "God helped them". If they didn't they would say, "God chose not to help." The same way some would say "They adapted and changed on their own.", or; "They didn't fair well and died." It's so hard to prove or disprove anything when it comes to this, but it sure is fun trying. There's a few other things you said that I want to touch on but I've been typing now for like 20 min and my poor fingers are getting tired. If you want you can address these things now and I'll come back to your other comments later. P. S. I guess i used to many smillies so I had to go back and erase some. LOL. Some were in your quotes, so i'm sorry. I just thought that you would understand your mood when writing them and someone who reads mine wouldn't.
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