Israel, Gaza, and the Middle East Conflict - Page 14

Lief Erikson · 02-20-2009, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffeehouse

Israel definitely is going far right in this election.

And that's very scary, considering the recent war in Gaza.

My hope for Gaza is taking some serious blows. It is just a mindboggling tragedy.

I truly hope the West Bank can pull itself together, though, and find both peace and jobs for its citizens.

***Jonathan*** · 02-20-2009, 09:05 AM

Netanyahu picked to form Israeli government

There we have it. Israel will indeed get a right-wing coalition government.

Lief Erikson · 02-20-2009, 02:26 PM

Oh no . . .

Coffeehouse · 02-20-2009, 02:58 PM

Let's face it though, any government constellation at the present moment in time would be right-wing anyways.

Hopefully Netanyahu will want to show more moderate, centre-leaning Israeli voters that Yisrael Beiteinu, the ultra-right wing party, won't overshadow his policies even though they will be in government together. Likud, although winning the election in the form of getting the chance to form a government, hold one seat less than Kadima, and will need to reach across the isle. Can't say I'm brimming with optimism though..

I hope there's some cool-minded individuals sitting in the West Bank now, though it's more likely the oxygen just got sucked out of there.

Lief Erikson · 02-21-2009, 03:58 AM

After this last war between Gaza and Israel, anger on both sides is going to be so much greater. The lines seem likely to be drawn more sharply and with more hate than ever. And now with Likud in power, Gaza looks likely to suffer far more in the coming years.

Like you, Coffeehouse, I'm a bit hopeless where it comes to Gaza Strip right now. I really can't see a way out.

The West Bank has a lot more possibility of peace. There is real potential right now for creating links of peace and economic ties with the West Bank, it seems to me. If only Israel can take advantage of it, and with Likud at the head, it looks much less likely that this will happen. Though I still have hope, there.

Coffeehouse · 05-31-2010, 03:52 PM

Today in the news, Israel forfeits its moral standing. Inexcusable actions aren't unheard of in this conflict but this crosses the line so fundamentally...

The attack on the humanitarian aid convoy in the Mediterranean was cowardly and unlawful.

It's a striking piece of evidence of the lack of concern for human lives by the Israeli government. It shows disdain for international law. On top of attacking a convoy filled with aid workers, politicians, authors, journalists, medical workers, etc., they did so in international waters.

The Israeli government shows the same contempt for human lives as Iran, Libya, North Korea, Cuba and a host of other 'democratic' countries.

***Jonathan*** · 05-31-2010, 04:40 PM

Christ, it's a catastrophe of immense proportions, both humanitarian and political. I'm worried about how this will unfold.

Gwaimir Windgem · 05-31-2010, 05:40 PM

Seriously, what kind of terrorists attack soldiers with switchblades and slingshots?

We'll see how the pro-Israeli folks handle this...

inked · 05-31-2010, 08:43 PM

'Peace convoy'? This was an Islamist terror ambush
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...r-ambush.thtml

Monday, May 31, 2010
Useful Idiots Condemn Israel
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...mn-israel.html

May 31, 2010
"Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers Attempting to Divert Blockade Runners

Word filtered out last night that there had been casualties, including some deaths, on the pointless, Turkey-backed flotilla attempting to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. The "peace activists" had been warned that they must divert to Ashdod where the supplies they intended to deliver would be searched for weapons and then trucked to Gaza.

They refused, choosing to make a political statement rather than deliver much-needed food and medical supplies to Gaza. They got their wish. The IDF released this video (embedded below) of the so-called peace activists attacking IDF soldiers as they board one of the ships. They attacked with guns, knives, and improvised weapons.

According to initial reports, these events resulted in the deaths of nine demonstrators and seven naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners have been evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel. Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces.

The flotilla is now under IDF control and headed for Ashdod. The peace activists got their PR message, at the pointless cost of nine lives. The Gazans will eventually get their supplies anyay. The Israeli blockade will continue. And the Israelis will get another scolding from the "international community."

Later: About this whole "international waters" bit that the activists are bleating about, it doesn't make a difference where the ships were seized.

Even assuming that the activists are correct and that the ships were taken in international waters, there's no "safe" spot for blockade runners. Israel has no duty to wait until its own waters are breached, not when the blockade runners have announced their intentions and set sail.

Israel gave the activists every opportunity to turn aside, both before they assembled and after the made a run for the blockade. The activists aren't bothering to pretend that they were planning to do anything other than challenge the Israeli blockade. They can hardly complain when the Israelis take them at their word.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/302119.php
posted by Gabriel Malor at 11:46 AM

Watch the video.

BeardofPants · 06-01-2010, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Seriously, what kind of terrorists attack soldiers with switchblades and slingshots?

We'll see how the pro-Israeli folks handle this...

And with journalists? ****wittery of massive proportions.

***Jonathan*** · 06-01-2010, 03:47 AM

The sordid reality is that the Israeli assault provide grist to the mills of extremists on both sides. If I may be crass, both Coffeehouse's and Inked's posts exemplify that. The sooner we get a clear picture of the event, the better and hopefully the fanaticism and mud slinging can be kept to a minimum.

Coffeehouse · 06-01-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

The sordid reality is that the Israeli assault provide grist to the mills of extremists on both sides. If I may be crass, both Coffeehouse's and Inked's posts exemplify that. The sooner we get a clear picture of the event, the better and hopefully the fanaticism and mud slinging can be kept to a minimum.

If you may be crass? You're implication is rude. I'd very much like to hear, in your own words, the extremist aspects of my post.

***Jonathan*** · 06-01-2010, 04:01 AM

Sorry. I read your post again and I don't find it extreme. Not Inked's for that matter either, as those aren't his own words.
What I meant to say is rather that both pro- and anti-Israeli persons will refer to what happened yesterday and use it as a strong argument to support their views.

[edit]
However the official Israeli viewpoint, that of the violent intentions of Ship to Gaza, is downright ludicrous. The world better make that clear. Also, the international community should always declare its opposition to the use of violence, preferably with one strong voice that Israel can't just wave off. At the same time the world should push for an immediate opening of Gaza's borders to humanitarian aid, trade and travel, so that just maybe something good can come out of this mess.

The Gaffer · 06-01-2010, 04:53 AM

The world will not make that clear. The world prefers an onside Israel to potentially deal with Iran by proxy.

The world doesn't give a rat's arse about Gaza.

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-01-2010, 11:29 AM

And Obama continues to toe the American line of blind Zionism; shame. All anyone ever cares about is protecting their own agenda.

inked · 06-01-2010, 08:52 PM

June 1, 2010 12:00 A.M.

Flotillas and Falsehoods
Don’t members of the press ever resent being so used?

Fact: Israel imposed a blockade of Gaza to prevent weapons from reaching the radical Islamic regime there that continues to make war on Israeli civilians. Egypt too has blockaded the strip, hoping to choke off weapons to Hamas, which it views as a threat.

Fact: Humanitarian relief is delivered to Gaza from Israel on a daily basis. During the first three months of this year, 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred to Gaza from Israel, including 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; and 553 tons of milk powder and baby food for the strip’s 1.5 million inhabitants. Representatives of international aid groups and the United Nations move freely to and from the Gaza Strip.

Fact: Upon learning of the intentions of the Gaza flotilla, the Israeli government asked the organizers to deliver their humanitarian aid first to an Israeli port where it would be inspected (for weapons) before being forwarded to Gaza. The organizers refused. “There are two possible happy endings,” a Muslim activist on board explained, “either we will reach Gaza or we will achieve martyrdom.”

Fact: The flotilla ignored multiple instructions from Israeli navy ships to change course and follow them to the Israeli port of Ashdod.

Fact: On board one of the ships, according to al-Jazeera, the “humanitarian” Palestinians sang “Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return” — a reference to the 628 massacre of Jews in Arabia at the hands of Muhammad.

Fact: The flotilla’s participants included the IHH, a “humanitarian relief fund” based in Turkey that has close ties to Hamas and to global jihadi groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, and elsewhere, and which has also organized relief to anti-U.S. Islamic radicals in Fallujah, Iraq. A French intelligence report suggests that IHH has provided documents to terrorists, permitting them to pose as relief workers. Among the other cheerleaders — former British MP and Saddam Hussein pal George Galloway, all-purpose America and Israel hater Noam Chomsky, and John Ging, head of UNRWA, the U.N.’s agency for Palestinian support.

Fact: When the family of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped during a cross-border raid by Hamas in 2006, offered to support the flotilla if, in exchange, they would agree to ask Hamas to permit international agencies to visit their son, they were rebuffed.

Fact: When Israeli commandos rappelled down ropes to the deck of the Mavi Marmara, they were assaulted and beaten with metal poles and baseball bats by the Palestinians on board....

http://article.nationalreview.com/pr...RkMWM5YmMyMmM=

There you go, Mr. President Obama, sir: http://www.jpost.com/International/A...aspx?id=177041

Gwaimir Windgem · 06-01-2010, 09:53 PM

Are you ever surprised, inked, that absolutely everything plays out in such a way to impeccably support and justify the agenda of the U. S. conservative movement in its entirety?

inked · 06-02-2010, 08:10 AM

NO more so than the opposite, my dear Gwai!

A blockade would not be necessary were the terrorists who want only to exterminate all Jews not habitually prone to hide their armaments among civilians and, as cowards are want to do, use women and children to shield their murderers and implements of murder. History 101.

The Turkish ship which harbored such a group of thugs and criminals intent on the extermination of Jews is itself an act of war.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...hamas_e105.htm

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169

There were humanitarian goods on the ship and people with good intentions. Unfortunately they were simply human shields for murderers and tokens of propaganda when the thugs are arrested or killed.

(hat tip to Matt at Stand Firm see thread http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/26143/#432216 comment 17 or so)

The Gaffer · 06-02-2010, 09:39 AM

I can see that the end justifies the means for many people, especially those suffering from mental rabies.

Let's be clear. In this case, the means is a serious assault on the freedom of an entire population. Furthermore, who is to say how many people have died indirectly as a result? Care to look up the comparative life expectancy statistics for Gaza compared with, say Israel?

Yet, the blockade has failed to stop the attacks. So the end has not been achieved. The blockade has arguably perpetuated the ranks of sworn enemies of Israel.

Insidious Rex · 06-02-2010, 01:55 PM

So just how many weapons were seized during the raid? Did they find stock piles of guns/missiles/bomb making material? Or just food and water?

02-20-2009, 09:05 AM	#262
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Netanyahu picked to form Israeli government There we have it. Israel will indeed get a right-wing coalition government. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

02-20-2009, 02:26 PM	#263
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Oh no . . . __________________ If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

02-20-2009, 02:58 PM	#264
Coffeehouse Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 2,145	Let's face it though, any government constellation at the present moment in time would be right-wing anyways. Hopefully Netanyahu will want to show more moderate, centre-leaning Israeli voters that Yisrael Beiteinu, the ultra-right wing party, won't overshadow his policies even though they will be in government together. Likud, although winning the election in the form of getting the chance to form a government, hold one seat less than Kadima, and will need to reach across the isle. Can't say I'm brimming with optimism though.. I hope there's some cool-minded individuals sitting in the West Bank now, though it's more likely the oxygen just got sucked out of there. __________________ "Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare."

02-21-2009, 03:58 AM	#265
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	After this last war between Gaza and Israel, anger on both sides is going to be so much greater. The lines seem likely to be drawn more sharply and with more hate than ever. And now with Likud in power, Gaza looks likely to suffer far more in the coming years. Like you, Coffeehouse, I'm a bit hopeless where it comes to Gaza Strip right now. I really can't see a way out. The West Bank has a lot more possibility of peace. There is real potential right now for creating links of peace and economic ties with the West Bank, it seems to me. If only Israel can take advantage of it, and with Likud at the head, it looks much less likely that this will happen. Though I still have hope, there. __________________ If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

05-31-2010, 03:52 PM	#266
Coffeehouse Entmoot Minister of Foreign Affairs Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Copenhagen Posts: 2,145	Today in the news, Israel forfeits its moral standing. Inexcusable actions aren't unheard of in this conflict but this crosses the line so fundamentally... The attack on the humanitarian aid convoy in the Mediterranean was cowardly and unlawful. It's a striking piece of evidence of the lack of concern for human lives by the Israeli government. It shows disdain for international law. On top of attacking a convoy filled with aid workers, politicians, authors, journalists, medical workers, etc., they did so in international waters. The Israeli government shows the same contempt for human lives as Iran, Libya, North Korea, Cuba and a host of other 'democratic' countries. __________________ "Well, thief! I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath. Come along! Help yourself again, there is plenty and to spare."

05-31-2010, 04:40 PM	#267
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Christ, it's a catastrophe of immense proportions, both humanitarian and political. I'm worried about how this will unfold. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

05-31-2010, 05:40 PM	#268
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Seriously, what kind of terrorists attack soldiers with switchblades and slingshots? We'll see how the pro-Israeli folks handle this... __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

05-31-2010, 08:43 PM	#269
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	'Peace convoy'? This was an Islamist terror ambush http://www.spectator.co.uk/melanieph...r-ambush.thtml Monday, May 31, 2010 Useful Idiots Condemn Israel http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.co...mn-israel.html May 31, 2010 "Peace Activists" Attack Israeli Soldiers Attempting to Divert Blockade Runners Word filtered out last night that there had been casualties, including some deaths, on the pointless, Turkey-backed flotilla attempting to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. The "peace activists" had been warned that they must divert to Ashdod where the supplies they intended to deliver would be searched for weapons and then trucked to Gaza. They refused, choosing to make a political statement rather than deliver much-needed food and medical supplies to Gaza. They got their wish. The IDF released this video (embedded below) of the so-called peace activists attacking IDF soldiers as they board one of the ships. They attacked with guns, knives, and improvised weapons. According to initial reports, these events resulted in the deaths of nine demonstrators and seven naval personnel were injured, some from gunfire and some from various other weapons. Two of the soldiers are moderately wounded and the remainder sustained light injuries. All of the injured, Israelis and foreigners have been evacuated by helicopter to hospitals in Israel. Reports from IDF forces on the scene are that it seems as if part of the participants onboard the ships were planning to lynch the forces. The flotilla is now under IDF control and headed for Ashdod. The peace activists got their PR message, at the pointless cost of nine lives. The Gazans will eventually get their supplies anyay. The Israeli blockade will continue. And the Israelis will get another scolding from the "international community." Later: About this whole "international waters" bit that the activists are bleating about, it doesn't make a difference where the ships were seized. Even assuming that the activists are correct and that the ships were taken in international waters, there's no "safe" spot for blockade runners. Israel has no duty to wait until its own waters are breached, not when the blockade runners have announced their intentions and set sail. Israel gave the activists every opportunity to turn aside, both before they assembled and after the made a run for the blockade. The activists aren't bothering to pretend that they were planning to do anything other than challenge the Israeli blockade. They can hardly complain when the Israelis take them at their word. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/302119.php posted by Gabriel Malor at 11:46 AM Watch the video. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 05-31-2010 at 08:44 PM. Reason: speelin' and instruction

06-01-2010, 03:47 AM	#271
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	The sordid reality is that the Israeli assault provide grist to the mills of extremists on both sides. If I may be crass, both Coffeehouse's and Inked's posts exemplify that. The sooner we get a clear picture of the event, the better and hopefully the fanaticism and mud slinging can be kept to a minimum. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻

06-01-2010, 04:01 AM	#273
*Jonathan* Entmoot Attorney-General, Equilibrating the Scales of Justice, Administrator ♎ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 3,891	Sorry. I read your post again and I don't find it extreme. Not Inked's for that matter either, as those aren't his own words. What I meant to say is rather that both pro- and anti-Israeli persons will refer to what happened yesterday and use it as a strong argument to support their views. [edit] However the official Israeli viewpoint, that of the violent intentions of Ship to Gaza, is downright ludicrous. The world better make that clear. Also, the international community should always declare its opposition to the use of violence, preferably with one strong voice that Israel can't just wave off. At the same time the world should push for an immediate opening of Gaza's borders to humanitarian aid, trade and travel, so that just maybe something good can come out of this mess. __________________ An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 06-01-2010 at 04:41 AM.

06-01-2010, 04:53 AM	#274
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	The world will not make that clear. The world prefers an onside Israel to potentially deal with Iran by proxy. The world doesn't give a rat's arse about Gaza.

06-01-2010, 11:29 AM	#275
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	And Obama continues to toe the American line of blind Zionism; shame. All anyone ever cares about is protecting their own agenda. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-01-2010, 08:52 PM	#276
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	June 1, 2010 12:00 A.M. Flotillas and Falsehoods Don’t members of the press ever resent being so used? Fact: Israel imposed a blockade of Gaza to prevent weapons from reaching the radical Islamic regime there that continues to make war on Israeli civilians. Egypt too has blockaded the strip, hoping to choke off weapons to Hamas, which it views as a threat. Fact: Humanitarian relief is delivered to Gaza from Israel on a daily basis. During the first three months of this year, 94,500 tons of supplies were transferred to Gaza from Israel, including 48,000 tons of food products; 40,000 tons of wheat; 2,760 tons of rice; 1,987 tons of clothes and footwear; and 553 tons of milk powder and baby food for the strip’s 1.5 million inhabitants. Representatives of international aid groups and the United Nations move freely to and from the Gaza Strip. Fact: Upon learning of the intentions of the Gaza flotilla, the Israeli government asked the organizers to deliver their humanitarian aid first to an Israeli port where it would be inspected (for weapons) before being forwarded to Gaza. The organizers refused. “There are two possible happy endings,” a Muslim activist on board explained, “either we will reach Gaza or we will achieve martyrdom.” Fact: The flotilla ignored multiple instructions from Israeli navy ships to change course and follow them to the Israeli port of Ashdod. Fact: On board one of the ships, according to al-Jazeera, the “humanitarian” Palestinians sang “Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return” — a reference to the 628 massacre of Jews in Arabia at the hands of Muhammad. Fact: The flotilla’s participants included the IHH, a “humanitarian relief fund” based in Turkey that has close ties to Hamas and to global jihadi groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Chechnya, and elsewhere, and which has also organized relief to anti-U.S. Islamic radicals in Fallujah, Iraq. A French intelligence report suggests that IHH has provided documents to terrorists, permitting them to pose as relief workers. Among the other cheerleaders — former British MP and Saddam Hussein pal George Galloway, all-purpose America and Israel hater Noam Chomsky, and John Ging, head of UNRWA, the U.N.’s agency for Palestinian support. Fact: When the family of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped during a cross-border raid by Hamas in 2006, offered to support the flotilla if, in exchange, they would agree to ask Hamas to permit international agencies to visit their son, they were rebuffed. Fact: When Israeli commandos rappelled down ropes to the deck of the Mavi Marmara, they were assaulted and beaten with metal poles and baseball bats by the Palestinians on board.... http://article.nationalreview.com/pr...RkMWM5YmMyMmM= There you go, Mr. President Obama, sir: http://www.jpost.com/International/A...aspx?id=177041 __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

06-01-2010, 09:53 PM	#277
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Are you ever surprised, inked, that absolutely everything plays out in such a way to impeccably support and justify the agenda of the U. S. conservative movement in its entirety? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

06-02-2010, 08:10 AM	#278
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	NO more so than the opposite, my dear Gwai! A blockade would not be necessary were the terrorists who want only to exterminate all Jews not habitually prone to hide their armaments among civilians and, as cowards are want to do, use women and children to shield their murderers and implements of murder. History 101. The Turkish ship which harbored such a group of thugs and criminals intent on the extermination of Jews is itself an act of war. http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/mal...hamas_e105.htm http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169 There were humanitarian goods on the ship and people with good intentions. Unfortunately they were simply human shields for murderers and tokens of propaganda when the thugs are arrested or killed. (hat tip to Matt at Stand Firm see thread http://www.standfirminfaith.com/?/sf/page/26143/#432216 comment 17 or so) __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 06-02-2010 at 08:12 AM. Reason: add link

06-02-2010, 09:39 AM	#279
The Gaffer Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In me taters Posts: 3,288	I can see that the end justifies the means for many people, especially those suffering from mental rabies. Let's be clear. In this case, the means is a serious assault on the freedom of an entire population. Furthermore, who is to say how many people have died indirectly as a result? Care to look up the comparative life expectancy statistics for Gaza compared with, say Israel? Yet, the blockade has failed to stop the attacks. So the end has not been achieved. The blockade has arguably perpetuated the ranks of sworn enemies of Israel.

06-02-2010, 01:55 PM	#280
Insidious Rex Quasi Evil Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Maryland, US Posts: 4,634	So just how many weapons were seized during the raid? Did they find stock piles of guns/missiles/bomb making material? Or just food and water? __________________ "People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."