01-21-2003, 02:17 AM | #261 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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OK - littlest 2 are in bed, older one is watching basketball with dad, his 6th grade science project is 99% finished (ran out of double-sided tape) (project - how far will red laser light go through different colored jello?), and the 6th load of laundry is in the dryer (didn't get ANY laundry done this weekend, too busy! Lots of fun, 'tho - my mother-in-law almost died of cookie inhalation because my sister-in-law and I were making her laugh so hard while she was eating - death certificate would have been funny - "asphyxiation by cookie"?)
I've wanted to get back to what Eärniel and EG had asked about - the (roughly) "can you be saved if you've never heard of Jesus" question. We talked a bit about it, and something EG said in one of her responses stuck out and I thought "No, no, I didn't quite mean it that way", but it just kinda got lost in the queue for a bit. I've been meaning to get back to it, and our pastor mentioned a verse in the sermon yesterday that illustrated what I wanted to bring up about it, so without making this long and ambiguous introductory statement any longer, here's what I wanted to say: Quote:
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This is one of those complicated topics, as I said before, and I think that I probably wasn't as clear as I wanted to be. What I wanted to re-address and/or clarify was related to Eärniel's second sentence, and EG's quote that I can't find tonite What I wanted to be sure to get across is that it is NOT MERELY belief in the sense of believing that God exists, it is faith/belief that also includes the placing of yourself under the lordship of God to the extent that it affects your actions. The verse that the pastor mentioned was the following: Quote:
Abraham, however, had faith in God, and acted on his faith by being (or at least trying to be - he failed many times!) obedient to what he knew of God's will. It wasn't just "ok, I believe that there is a God, but now I'll get on with the rest of my life and not worry about it at all, or how it might affect me." Just one example - Quote:
The NT talks about this by clearly stating that we are saved by faith, but also saying that if there are not works (i.e., obedience to God's law), then there is no faith actually present. Works are the evidence of, and the natural outgrowth of, a true faith in God. And even 'tho the desert island guy doesn't have a Bible, still, God's moral code is written on his heart, and he could obey that. I hope that helps to clarify things a bit.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 01-21-2003 at 02:54 AM. |
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01-21-2003, 02:55 AM | #262 | |
The Original Corruptor
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So, let's see. I'm a strong, actively and passively weak atheist. Should I be spending more or less time at the gym, or what? |
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01-21-2003, 02:57 AM | #263 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-21-2003, 03:09 AM | #264 | |
The Original Corruptor
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01-21-2003, 05:00 AM | #265 | |||||||||||||||
The Original Corruptor
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In any event, I'll continue to pretend that I agree with your description, and answer your questions from that point of view, unless I see something that doesn't quite fit, or is ambiguous. Quote:
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A question for you. Does this hypothetical god-concept of yours, who is "all-powerful", have all power? Quote:
If the rules of logic do not apply to this god-concept, then what is the point of thinking about it? Quote:
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Last edited by Andúril : 01-21-2003 at 09:57 AM. |
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01-21-2003, 11:02 AM | #266 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Saying that certain things about a Being are impossible is pretty well saying that this Being is impossible.
You did not claim I said that a lack of complete accuracy proves complete inaccuracy, but you implied it. If you were not implying that I said it, then why did you bring it up? I did not ask for you to dissect it; When someone asks a question, it is implied that they want an answer. A person cannot know that something will never end; it must be taken on faith. Like the existence of God, or evolution (though personally I think evolution takes a lot more faith). I don't really know what you mean by "all power". I feel like whatever I answer, you're going to tear me up, so I'll refrain from answering until I know what you mean by that. I don't believe that. Saying that He cannot do something against his nature does not mean that he cannot cause an "illogical" scenario to take place. Yes, the Christian God is a Trinity. Though actually I don't believe I referred to the other Third. Well, since you choose to ignore the Hell part, I'm not complaining. Well, that part doesn't really make sense. What do you mean by that? Why is there no reason to think about something if it cannot be defined by logic? You don't have to examine everything. There's no need to be sarcastic. :P All-Powerful is used (by me, at least) in a very loose sense. One cannot know the exact definition of God's power. Let me ask you once and for all: Do you believe in your heart of hearts that there is nothing that you cannot completely understand?
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01-21-2003, 01:59 PM | #267 | |
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Gwaimir, I would really like to reply to you. In fact, I read through your post and conceived of excellent responses to each line. However, when I was done reading, I recalled that you stated the following:
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Good day. |
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01-21-2003, 04:19 PM | #268 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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And why, pray tell, is that?
Let me just say something here. I personally know that there is a God. I have seen too much happen for it to all be coincidental; I have at times been spoken to (of course, not verbally, but in the heart) by God. Many times, God has intervened in my family's finances. He has helped us through difficult times, He has done much for us. I have seen people with broken legs get up and walk. As I said before, I have seen altogether too much to not believe that God exists, and that he is a kind, loving God. He would that none would perish, and the same goes for me. He will accept anyone into His flock, if you will but ask Him. Believe me, even if you suffer in this life (which it is quite likely that you won't), it will pay out in the long run!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
01-21-2003, 04:28 PM | #269 | |
The Original Corruptor
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01-21-2003, 04:46 PM | #270 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-21-2003, 05:12 PM | #271 | ||
The Original Corruptor
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Fine. Quote:
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01-21-2003, 05:41 PM | #272 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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So, if you cannot completely understand that, can you not accept that just maybe you would not be able to completely understand a God if such a Being exists?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
01-21-2003, 05:50 PM | #273 | |
The Original Corruptor
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Quote:
That is all. |
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01-21-2003, 06:22 PM | #274 |
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wicca
is anyone else here a wiccan?
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Would you judge my future based on what i did in the past? Procrastinators Unite!!!.....tomorrrow.... Kids in backseats cause accidents...accidents in backseats cause kids As long as there are tests..there will be prayers in school |
01-21-2003, 06:23 PM | #275 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Check the original "What's your religion" thread. If I remember, there were quite a few Wiccans. I think BoP was one.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
01-21-2003, 07:49 PM | #276 | |
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1- Since you answered with a sad face, Andúril, maybe I should have added on to the question a bit - I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were a know-it-all or anything, what I wanted to ask was more general, actually, something like - Do you think that given enough time (darn those day jobs!) and good teachers that a person can understand everything there is to understand? 2- I've just received some very sobering news about a friend, and I won't have the heart or the energy to post in this thread for a few days, so if there's anyone that is looking for my posts - I'm sorry, but you'll have to wait a bit longer.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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01-21-2003, 09:49 PM | #277 |
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she was joking
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01-21-2003, 09:56 PM | #278 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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who are you saying was joking, and about what?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
01-21-2003, 10:10 PM | #279 |
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looks like ive been missing a good topic.
i once was a practicing christian, but have since found no logical basis for the existence of any kind of god. there are way to many contridictions in the bible for me to believe that it is the truth. i will say that it is a good story. revelations provides action packed entertainment, while psalms is pleasent to read whether you are christian or not. if i am wrong, at least ill see everyone at the battle of armageddon, although we will likely be on opposite sides. just think of it: one deciding battle...what a way to go out!
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01-21-2003, 10:28 PM | #280 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Actually, I think that's unlikely; if I remember correctly, the Battle of Armageddon will be fought between the Lamb of God and the armies of the world. If you're alive at the time, and if you are in an army, then you might be.
Although I don't want to seem preachy, I really don't think that spending eternity in Heaven or Hell is something that you should regard, well, flippantly is the word that comes to mind. Sorry if that comes off as preachy or damning, I just felt I should say that.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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