07-23-2005, 02:54 PM | #261 |
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OMG I've just had a brain wave about harry being a horcrux and Harry's possible death
I've just read the last couple of chapters is OOTP again and the prophecy states: "and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live whilst the other survives" So if to defeat voldemort harry had to kill himself because he was the final horcrux it would in effect contradict the prophacy, because the prophacy says either must die by the hand of the other which sounds like it means by a wand or as a concuquence of an action of the other, and, for none can live whilst the other survives sounds like it means one MUST Survive to complete the prophacy, if they were to both die it would almost certainly be included in the prophacy, and would say something like one must give his life to secure the demise of the other (which it doesn't)
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix |
07-23-2005, 04:23 PM | #262 | |
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BUT..either also has this meaning: "2. Each of two; the one and the other; both; -- formerly, also, each of any number. His flowing hair In curls on either cheek played. --Milton." So it can mean they both die. Or even (it won't happen) that Voldie kills Harry and lives to terrorise the world. As for the second part. None can live whilst the other survives. That doesn't say one will survive and live. I take this to mean Voldie is surviving, so Harry cannot live. Now for Harry to live V must no longer survive. Likewise for V to survive then Harry must not live. But it doesn't say one WILL survive. Or even imply that. If both died the prophecy would be complete. The one who can destroy the dark lord was chosen and marked, and neither lived while the other survived because neither survived. I don't want Harry to die. But I think it is possible and makes sense.
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07-23-2005, 05:14 PM | #263 | |
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it says for harry to Live voldemort must Die, So I myself read that as like I've said one will win and survive whilst the other loses and dies so either harry kills voldemort and lives or voldemort kills harry and voldemort lives,
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix |
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07-23-2005, 05:30 PM | #264 |
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just finished reading the thread - am looking forward to getting my copy at the library!
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07-23-2005, 05:39 PM | #265 |
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Huh? You read all the spoilers possible and then read the book??? You're just like my younger brother .
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07-23-2005, 06:07 PM | #266 | |
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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07-23-2005, 11:34 PM | #267 |
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I agree with you, XK.
Incidentally, is this the picture of Marvolo's ring that's on your UK edition? http://www.hogwarts-gallery.org/hogw..._uk_detail.jpg
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07-24-2005, 05:01 AM | #268 | ||
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The prophecy is ambiguous, and while what you say makes sense, what I say is also not wrong in terms of the prophecy. Quote:
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07-24-2005, 06:00 AM | #269 | |
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I've just ad a thought about the deaths in harry potter and the number oh Horcruxes left and I thought this would be intresting
only a theory but an intresting one, 5 people in harry's life have died and there are 5 pieces of voldemorts soul left to destroy (including voldemort himself) I repeat this is only a theory! I spoilered it Just in case someone has been living on the moon and doesn't know who dies in HBP
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So do all who see such times, but that is not for us to decide, all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us Gandalf And what happened to the rest of your party, killed, eaten, gone home? Beorn, The Hobbit Dark and difficult Times lie ahead Harry, soon we must all face a choice, a choice between what is right and what is easy! Dumbledore Neo Are you listening to Me? Or are you too busy looking at the Woman in the Red Dress? Morpheus, The Matrix Last edited by King of The Istari : 07-24-2005 at 06:01 AM. |
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07-24-2005, 07:23 PM | #270 |
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....just back from my trip to the moon... thanks for doing the spoiler this way, really.
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07-25-2005, 02:19 PM | #271 | |||
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07-25-2005, 08:22 PM | #272 | ||
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Spoilers for HBP obviously follow...
I like King of the Istari's theory. I'm not sure how it would work though... maybe something similar to Priori Incantatum? (Though not exactly the same.) I think by 'each Horcrux', KotI means the five5 remaining Horcruxes Dumbledore theorized still exist. Harry also needs help from alive, and powerful, wizards - as many as possible! He needs Hermione to help him figure out where the other Horcruxes are, and if there are indeed five left. As much as he wants to keep other people away from danger (as evidenced by his break-up with Ginny), there is no way he can do this by himself. I also think Snape supported and still supports Dumbledore, and Harry will end up needing his help too. Now that Dumbledore is gone, there is no remaining 'good guy' who knows as much about Voldemort and his activities. The question is... will he be able to find and communicate with Snape? And more difficultly, will they be able to work together? Personally, I really think Snape needs to grow up and get over himself. Be bitter if you must Snape, but there's much more at stake than a rivalry with a man over 15 years dead. From the memory we saw in OotP, James Potter appears to be a self-centred, bullying git. But as much as Snape (mostly unfairly) despises Harry because of James, he must realize they are both on the same side. He's supposed to be the adult here, it's up to him to take the initiative. It might be too late now though, since Harry is quite sure he saw Snape murder Dumbledore in cold blood. More about the memory of Snape though... after Lily gets James to put Snape down, Snape calls her a filthy mudblood (or something very mean). I thought that meant he was bigoted, but now we know he called himself the Half-Blood Prince. Now I think that he was angry and lashing out, and wanted to look tough to preserve what remained of his dignity. I don't think he was bigoted now, since he seems to be proud of his Muggle heritage as much as his magical one. And does anyone else find it ironic that the most Harry ever learned from Snape was from Snape's old textbook, where the lesson was not accompanied by insults and snide remarks? Harry could actually concentrate on Snape's words since he wasn't trying to supress pent-up rage. I think it's also interesting that Hermione compared Harry and Snape's DADA teaching methods. I think those two have more in common than they'd ever care to admit in a billion years. I also wonder if Harry went back to the Room of Requirement to get the textbook back 'off-screen', similar how he got the Marauders' Map back from Crouch Jr (fake Moody's) office 'off-screen' in Goblet of Fire? I think this time, though, Dumbledore's death pushed everything else out of his mind.
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07-25-2005, 08:38 PM | #273 | |
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The only time when I have seen Snape let his dislike of Harry supercede his duty is the time when he stopped giving Harry Oclumency lessons. One of the things I'm happiest about in book 6, is how so many things happened in it that I thought would be reserved for book 7! Dumbledore's death and the battle in the castle were things I thought we'd see at the end of book 7. The break-up with Ginny also seemed like it might be more of a book 7 thing (not that I anticipated it). I was lamenting over the fact that we almost certainly wouldn't get to see anything of Harry outside of Hogwarts, but I WAS WRONG!!! So I am really happy.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 07-25-2005 at 08:41 PM. |
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07-25-2005, 10:58 PM | #274 |
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So, after reading the book (got it this afternoon and finished it in about 6 1/2 hours), I have a thought/question--forgive me if it's been asked before:
Why did Dumbledor put Snape in the DA position? Did he do it in an attempt to get rid of Snape, or was it an attempt to prevent further harm to Dark Arts teachers? Remember he said that every teacher had left after a year of teaching ever since Voldimort tried to get the job--clearly there was some sort of curse put over the job (that old long-running 'joke'. Who knew it was the truth?). So did he expect something to happen to Snape, and he wanted to get rid of Snape, or was he hoping that since Snape was a Death Eater, Snape would be protected, and no more D.A. teachers would be hurt or killed from the curse? |
07-25-2005, 11:51 PM | #275 | |
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This is purely conjecture, but it seems to be worth consideration to me.
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07-26-2005, 03:07 AM | #276 | |||
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I think that's an excellent theory Khamul. I hope Rowling expands on this on book 7.
I completely agree, except I don't necessarily think Snape was romantically in love with Lily. I think his comment would have severely damaged their friendship, which was probably very special to him. (If the theory is true.) One issue with the theory, is why the completely hatred for Harry? If Snape liked Lily, as a friend or otherwise, he must realize that Harry is 50% Lily's. I mean, I know wizards don't learn biology, but jeez... Snape's hatred of Harry is almost completely irrational, and not fully explained. Maybe Harry, who looks like his father but with his mother's eyes, reminds Snape of everything he regrets about Lily, and everything he hates about James. Plus, as you pointed out, he's from a union that must have tortured him. (Assuming your theory is true, of course.) Quote:
Obviously, Dumbledore was too busy to jump in and teach the subject himself. But why did he hire Lockhart in Harry's second year? I'm sure he knew at the outset that Lockhart was a fraud. His comment at the end of the book, "Impaled on your own sword Gilderoy?" drives this home. What possible good did this appointment accomplish aside from making everyone buy a load of expensive coaster-- I mean Lockhart's books, and giving Hermione the chance to practice a Freezing Charm? He might has well have discontinued the class. I felt bad for Harry when his best and favourite class was ruined, but at the same time, it's about friggin time they had a decent prof after Proffessor Lupin got sacked. I wish there had been more page time for Snape's and Harry's interactions in the class, but I suppose it would have been more of the usual. Speaking of Lupin, I wish he had gotten more page time too! Imagine having to spy on the werewolves Voldemort had recruited, including the awful and loathesome Fenrir Greyback! Last comment... Fenrir and Lupin (100% of named werewolves in the series) both have wolfish names. Imagine Remus's parents, surprised and saddened that their young son, of all the people in the world, would be bitten by a werewolf. Then they realized their last name was 'Lupin' - all Greyback had to do was look then up in the phone book. And Fenrir... I wonder how his parents chose that name. "Let's give him a strong name... like... Fenrir! Yes, we could name our son after the huge wolf that devours Ragnorak at the end of the world(1). Now son, don't grow up to be a lunatic werewolf or anything..." I often enjoy Rowling's name symbology, like Weasley. Lupin always seemed a bit much to me (cuz he's, duuuh, a werewolf), but add Fenrir (which admittedly, I only found out about later) and worst of all, Sanguini for the only vampire, and I think she was bludgeoning us a bit too hard in the last book. Sanguini, aaaaaa! I'll hazard to say that's the worst name ever. I still love the books though, of course. (1) Please forgive my abuse of Norse mythology in getting that a bit wrong.
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07-26-2005, 05:57 AM | #277 | |
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No, I meant what did he mean by at each horcrux. Forgive me if I'm being pedantic, but I actually think that's important. Did he mean when they find it, and are in the place it was left? I'm sure the enchantments would stop any magic being done to destroy it there. But once they have it out then obviusly they are destroy-able. Personally I doubt this theory, because once they're dead I believe they can't help Harry in any way other than to offer advice. I'm not sure what appened in Priori Incantatum. I don't think the ghosts actually did anything to the DE's, other than distract them so Harry ad an opportunity. But I could be mistaken. I'll have to re-read GoF. But it isn't an impossible theory.
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07-26-2005, 08:09 AM | #278 | ||
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One point I want to discuss is the air of vindictiveness with which the book ends. I don't think that JKR is going to justify murdering for vengeance in the last book, so I expect that the Snape thing will change its course in the last book.
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07-26-2005, 08:13 AM | #279 | |
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07-30-2005, 04:26 PM | #280 |
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After all my questioning...I have found the answer...
Aberforth Dumbledore IS the barkeep at the Hog's Head! No joke! Aberforth Dumbledore My mystery is solved.
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