Abortion II - Page 14

katya · 09-25-2008, 06:55 PM

That doesn't mean everyone's going to feel that way though. I don't think that's a good reason to say something is universally wrong....

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 07:00 PM

well....i was around about oh let me see....200 other women all diff ages? they had the same problem. majority of ppl are going to and it someting no one needs to feel

katya · 09-25-2008, 07:03 PM

Where were you around these women? Was it at the support group or something like that? Obviously the women who didn't have issues wouldn't have gone to something like that so it's not really a good sample.

ElizabethAnnRoger · 09-25-2008, 07:04 PM

lol very true, my mistake. its called Rachels Vinegard.

sisterandcousinandaunt · 09-25-2008, 08:35 PM

As I've said before, everything around this is difficult. But I've known women to drive by the house where their birth child lives. I've known women to hire private detectives to see if that child is all right. I've known adopted kids with unresolved issues about their families, and intact families where the mother just CANNOT make a connection with the child they bore and are raising...even if they can with a sibling.

And so many issues around fertility. That's the other end of it.

I hope everyone gets a chance to work with their pain on these issues. But I don't think banning abortion gets us that, e.a.r. (((((((((HUGS)))))))))

Midge · 09-25-2008, 08:49 PM

I know I said I was out of this, but...

*gives EAR a big squeeze hug*

Okay. Gone again!

Curufin · 09-25-2008, 09:23 PM

The way I see it, EAR - the choice you had, even though it may have been the wrong one for you (after all, everyone is different and will react differently), is a choice that every woman deserves to have.

Turn it around - how would you feel if you got pregnant again and were forced to have an abortion?

Forcing a woman either to have or not to have an abortion is wrong.

brownjenkins · 10-02-2008, 04:18 PM

Do guys deserve a choice?

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 04:23 PM

^In terms of what? Having input on whether or not an abortion takes place?

brownjenkins · 10-02-2008, 04:26 PM

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 04:29 PM

I think the issue with that is... it's not men who have to go through the actual carrying of the child or the birth... ultimately the reasoning behind the legality of abortion is that it's a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her body...

So that same logic can't really apply to a man because it's not a man's right to choose what to do with a woman's body...

That's just from a legal standpoint though...

sisterandcousinandaunt · 10-02-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Yes.

No, they don't.

katya · 10-02-2008, 05:17 PM

Yes, like Empress Flynn said, it's the woman who has to go through the actual child-bearing. I think it's her responsibility to take his feelings into account though. I don't think they should have any real legal say in it though. In the end there's only one of a few possible choices and one of them has to be made. I'd say the woman has more right to decide because it's her body and her responsibility, traditionally.

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 05:20 PM

I concur! I mean, I personally would encourage anyone making the decision to talk about it with each other (if at all possible), but when it comes down to it, the law covers the woman's right, not the man's opinion of what the woman should do...

sisterandcousinandaunt · 10-02-2008, 06:16 PM

Well, I'd say "traditionally" she's chattel, and has no say at all.

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 06:18 PM

Historically, that is very true... but at the moment, there's still the legal right to choose...

sisterandcousinandaunt · 10-02-2008, 06:29 PM

Vote.

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 06:31 PM

I'm gonna, I'm gonna!

Sheesh, lemme get back into the country first!

sisterandcousinandaunt · 10-02-2008, 06:39 PM

Hey, I worry.

I get up every day and worry about this. If there's a decided voter for Obama/Biden, I want that vote in the can, so I can concentrate on the "persuadables."

I'm not losing this one. NOT.

Empress_Flynn · 10-02-2008, 06:41 PM

Let your mind be at ease then... I WILL be voting Obama/Biden in this election

09-25-2008, 08:35 PM	#265
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	As I've said before, everything around this is difficult. But I've known women to drive by the house where their birth child lives. I've known women to hire private detectives to see if that child is all right. I've known adopted kids with unresolved issues about their families, and intact families where the mother just CANNOT make a connection with the child they bore and are raising...even if they can with a sibling. And so many issues around fertility. That's the other end of it. I hope everyone gets a chance to work with their pain on these issues. But I don't think banning abortion gets us that, e.a.r. (((((((((HUGS))))))))) __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

09-25-2008, 08:49 PM	#266
Midge Faithful Gardener Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: I walk here and there, they say... Posts: 3,603	I know I said I was out of this, but... gives EAR a big squeeze hug Okay. Gone again! __________________ In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more!

09-25-2008, 09:23 PM	#267
Curufin The Ñoldóran Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mishawaka, IN Posts: 2,050	The way I see it, EAR - the choice you had, even though it may have been the wrong one for you (after all, everyone is different and will react differently), is a choice that every woman deserves to have. Turn it around - how would you feel if you got pregnant again and were forced to have an abortion? Forcing a woman either to have or not to have an abortion is wrong. __________________ Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian

10-02-2008, 04:18 PM	#268
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Do guys deserve a choice? __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

10-02-2008, 04:23 PM	#269
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	^In terms of what? Having input on whether or not an abortion takes place? __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

09-25-2008, 06:55 PM	#261
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	That doesn't mean everyone's going to feel that way though. I don't think that's a good reason to say something is universally wrong....

09-25-2008, 07:00 PM	#262
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	well....i was around about oh let me see....200 other women all diff ages? they had the same problem. majority of ppl are going to and it someting no one needs to feel

09-25-2008, 07:03 PM	#263
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Where were you around these women? Was it at the support group or something like that? Obviously the women who didn't have issues wouldn't have gone to something like that so it's not really a good sample.

09-25-2008, 07:04 PM	#264
ElizabethAnnRoger Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Along side the Emperor of France. Posts: 110	lol very true, my mistake. its called Rachels Vinegard.

10-02-2008, 04:26 PM	#270
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	Yes. __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

10-02-2008, 04:29 PM	#271
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	I think the issue with that is... it's not men who have to go through the actual carrying of the child or the birth... ultimately the reasoning behind the legality of abortion is that it's a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her body... So that same logic can't really apply to a man because it's not a man's right to choose what to do with a woman's body... That's just from a legal standpoint though... __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-02-2008, 05:17 PM	#273
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Yes, like Empress Flynn said, it's the woman who has to go through the actual child-bearing. I think it's her responsibility to take his feelings into account though. I don't think they should have any real legal say in it though. In the end there's only one of a few possible choices and one of them has to be made. I'd say the woman has more right to decide because it's her body and her responsibility, traditionally.

10-02-2008, 05:20 PM	#274
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	I concur! I mean, I personally would encourage anyone making the decision to talk about it with each other (if at all possible), but when it comes down to it, the law covers the woman's right, not the man's opinion of what the woman should do... __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-02-2008, 06:16 PM	#275
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	Well, I'd say "traditionally" she's chattel, and has no say at all. __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

10-02-2008, 06:18 PM	#276
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	Historically, that is very true... but at the moment, there's still the legal right to choose... __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-02-2008, 06:29 PM	#277
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	Vote. __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

10-02-2008, 06:31 PM	#278
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	I'm gonna, I'm gonna! Sheesh, lemme get back into the country first! __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

10-02-2008, 06:39 PM	#279
sisterandcousinandaunt Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,535	Hey, I worry. I get up every day and worry about this. If there's a decided voter for Obama/Biden, I want that vote in the can, so I can concentrate on the "persuadables." I'm not losing this one. NOT. __________________ That would be the swirling vortex to another world. Cool. I want one. TMNT No, I'm not emo. I just have a really poor sense of direction. (Thanks to katya for this quote) This is the best news story EVER! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26087293/ “Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint.”...John McCain "I shall go back. And I shall find that therapist. And I shall whack her upside her head with my blanket full of rocks." ...Louisa May

10-02-2008, 06:41 PM	#280
Empress_Flynn Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Everywhere and nowhere Posts: 814	Let your mind be at ease then... I WILL be voting Obama/Biden in this election __________________ "Even a mirror will not show you yourself, if you do not wish to see." "But remember... clowns make two things around here: balloon animals... and enemies." "If I loved you then I would love you in any way I could, and if we could not touch, then I would draw strength from your beauty... And if I went blind, I would fill my soul with the sound of your voice and the contents of your thoughts until the last spark of my love for you lit the shabby darkness of my dying mind."

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