The Singers Thread

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

We discussed it, and my teacher thinks that my technique is probably good, but I've just done too much singing... so nothing is 'hurt' but my cords are probably swollen.

That definitely sounds like swollen cords The rest is just what you need.

It's just so hard not to let this stuff screw with my brain, you know? I'm constantly wondering if I have what it takes to be a professional singer under the best of circumstances, and it's incredibly difficult not to see life in shades of gray when my voice is out.

Oh, please try to stay positive! I know it's hard. I know the feeling of "what if it'll never heal and i'll never sing well again" (though it's completely unfounded ). Don't forget also that the professional life will be just that, and not with school on top of everything else! A student schedule is brutal enough. You've added aspiring-professional on top of that. No wonder you're over-extended It's a necessary evil, though, i know. You will get through it. Just listen to everything your teacher tells you, and do it.

My teacher seems to think I have a really good shot at the baritone role for next semester's opera (something one of the composition teachers wrote) so maybe I'll try to start looking at that stuff.

**ears perk up** You may have a shot at originating a role???

[Tessar]

Originally Posted by Voronwen

That definitely sounds like swollen cords The rest is just what you need.

I think so... my throat seems fine today. No particular difficulty in speaking or the very gentle singing I've done... although of course it's quite a different thing to half sing like I did vs. full singing . I barely sang though... just sort of hummed/sang through my arias and made sure not to do it more than a few times. Vocal rest = good thing right now .

**ears perk up** You may have a shot at originating a role???

Yes, I'm very excited about it! I just realized today that there are four or five baritone roles! I'm sure most of them are just in the opera for a few measures and more like chorus roles, but I'm okay with that if it comes right down to it . My teacher thinks I'll have a good chance at one of the bigger roles... to quote her, "I'm positive you'll be in the opera next semester," which is very kind and encouraging of her to say... but to be perfectly fair and honest she hasn't heard any of my competition yet . We do have some baritones who are much better than I am.


I realized today just how much I need to learn to calm down, though. I was walking my dog at an absolutely break-neck speed, when I suddenly thought, "Why am I walking so fast?!" and I realized I always walk that fast.

Then I came home, got a pudding cup, and ate it in about two seconds flat even though I wasn't particularly hungry. I realized how fast I'd eaten it, and it occurred to me that probably a great deal of my disappointment in myself, and possibly even some of my errors, are because my tendency is to rush through things at top speed.

I'll bet if I can calm down some it will actually improve my voice, too, because I'm probably missing things in the interest of trying to 'push on' to the next 'breakthrough'.



I will say one thing that I am very grateful for... People NEVER used to say, "you have a great instrument," or "you definitely have the vocal potential to be a professional singer," and now I've had lots and lots of people tell me that. I know, and of course they know, that I don't sing particularly amazingly right now... but it's really nice to hear that positive reenforcement for my 'instrument'. Before my first great teacher everyone really encouraged me to stick with teaching... so it's nice to hear something better, now .

[Tessar]

OH BY THE WAY!!! This is one of the clips from Crittenden!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr0qgJP66C8


The soprano is just fabulous beyond belief. Her voice is beautiful.



I'm really enjoying using some of the tricks and techniques I learned at that workshop to get this piece for seminar next Thursday in musical shape... hopefully my voice will be up for it then! I'll be singing 'honor and arms', and I'm trying to give each line a thought or emotion... I may want some help in this one to see what you think of my interpretation . For instance on one line... 'vanquish a slave that is half slain, so mean a triumph I disdain.' I thought at first I might go with the idea that he's just casually waving the idea off, but I'm thinking now I might go with the thought that someone has just suggested again that he kill the guy, and he's both incredulous and... well... disdainful . Almost make 'vanquish a slave that is half slain' into a question, like, "you really expect me to kill a half-dead slave for honor?!"


I forgot to mention that I got a fantastic tip from my teacher on Thursday... I mentioned to her how I can't seem to get my palate up properly, and she suggested putting my finger in my mouth to trigger the automatic lift that our palates do to avoid things in the mouth. At first I was like, "this is lame, I'm doing it and I don't think it's working." Then I thought, "Wait... maybe because I know I'm not going to actually touch my palate..." so I shoved my finger way back into my mouth and WHADDAYAKNOW? Mid-note my palate snapped up and my voice flipped from being in my nose to being nicely placed with a rounded tone.

So that's one I'm going to have to play with some more.

[Voronwen]

Somehow i missed these posts. I don't think my little green leaves that indicate 'new posts' show up consistently.

I'm glad you're having breakthroughs. I would be wary of that 'finger' trick though, you wouldn't want to gag yourself Just be careful.

Re. slowing down - Yes, that might be a good idea. I've been there, and i've also been (more often) in the opposite position. Not as in too slow, but as in, "thinking too much", getting stuck inside my head.

I'll be singing 'honor and arms', and I'm trying to give each line a thought or emotion... I may want some help in this one to see what you think of my interpretation

I don't know what to tell you about this because i am very unfamiliar with the piece (and the show). The best thing would be to take it to your teacher.

As for the new opera, if your teacher is that sure of your getting in, i'm sure you will. Just keep up the good work. I nearly had the chance to perform a piece of new music once, an oratorio. The composer was a student who was dual-majoring in both voice and theory. He needed a coloratura and specifically had been writing it with me in mind. It never materialized because that summer i moved away.


As i write this today i am contemplating quitting singing altogether. I live so far from everything, so there's noplace for me to use it - who am i kidding? It's unrealistic. And as such an introverted person, i'm not the type to go around putting herself out there and networking and what they call "creating your own opportunities". I've tried this, and it's really not my bag of tricks. That's really the only way to be able to do it when you're not even close to a metropolitan area. Moving is currently not an option, nor in the foreseeable near future, so i think any further pursuit of doing anything with my singing is just unrealistic for me and i need to face that.

[Tessar]

As i write this today i am contemplating quitting singing altogether. I live so far from everything, so there's noplace for me to use it - who am i kidding? It's unrealistic. And as such an introverted person, i'm not the type to go around putting herself out there and networking and what they call "creating your own opportunities". I've tried this, and it's really not my bag of tricks. That's really the only way to be able to do it when you're not even close to a metropolitan area. Moving is currently not an option, nor in the foreseeable near future, so i think any further pursuit of doing anything with my singing is just unrealistic for me and i need to face that.

You know, you made a statement much earlier in this thread that really resonated with me, and I've heard other people say it as well... we don't seem to choose music, music chooses us. Considering what great discussions we've had, I feel like you're too 'wired' for singing to quit... you know? There are lots of people who can't sing, but they can talk shop, and there are lots of people who are great singers but don't know the first thing about technique. I think you are one of those rare people who can do both, and I feel like it would be a shame for you to give that up .

Obviously you have to do what you feel is right for you, but I would strongly suggest that you not quit. I just think that if it were me, I would look back later on in my life and think, "Why did I quit?!" and I have a feeling you would do the same thing.


Believe me, this is not a patented speech I give out or anything . I have plenty of friends at school who finish their voice lessons and just say, "Well, that was fun. I'm done now," and they pretty much stop singing. They're obviously not so interested and view voice more as a hobby, which is perfectly fine and I'm glad they got to enjoy some time training their voice, but I don't try to convince them to keep singing.

But someone like you... well, I just feel like it would be a shame for you to give up .

[Varnafindë]

Well said, Tessar. I second that.

[Voronwen]

Tessar, thank you for these words and believe me, i will hold onto them and really think about them.

[Tessar]

I'm sorry for your difficulties with shyness. I understand that being shy is an incredible thing to even attempt to overcome... my second oldest sister is also very shy and reserved, and I often watch her struggle with it. She has broken out of it a lot, but I know it's still an inner monologue for her that she has to fight against to be sociable.

I know i've mentioned this many times. While i have been told that i have a career-quality voice, i definitely don't agree, and i definitely don't have the personality. I'm so far from being an extrovert it's not even funny. I'm terrifically shy.

My first great voice teacher, the bass, told me a story about a student of his who got to sing with Samuel Ramey. If you're not familiar with Ramey, which you probably are, he's an INCREDIBLY famous bass-baritone... although probably not as well known now as he was in the 80's and 90's. He was pretty much the bass-baritone for a long time.

Apparently Ramey is very reserved. He is not unfriendly, but he tends to stand off to the side when the other singers congregate to chatter between scenes, and he is apparently a shy guy. So don't think that it's impossible to have a career if shyness is a problem for you... it will make things much more difficult, but it is not impossible .

I'm not trying to say that just because he can do it, you should do it too... but I'm just offering the suggestion that maybe it's not as impossible as you think it is.


Your location is obviously a problem, but remember we know nothing about the future . You could find yourself living in New York two years down the line for all you know... unlikely as it obviously is, there is always the chance something could happen. If music and singing are your passion then don't let current circumstances get in your way.



So maybe you messed up your big shot at having a career. That doesn't mean that you can never do it. To paraphrase what you told me before about my huge mistake in choir... just because you've made one mistake doesn't automatically disqualify you from 'the game' for life.

If you regret what you did in the past for an audition, consider how much more you will regret giving up singing and training later on if you do it now. I am very much concerned that if you give up singing you'll set yourself up for a lifetime of regret later on. Lets face it, if you stop singing for even just four or five years your muscles will forget what they're doing, and it is so difficult to get 'back on the wagon'.

Honestly that's the only thing that keeps me from giving up some days when I just want to curl up and cry, then get back up and never even try to sing again. I could do that... but I would regret it my entire life, and I think I would slowly become very bitter against all of the people I know who will end up having success in music. I might crash and burn, but I feel that I have to try and to keep working. There's a part of me that realizes that I will probably keep trying, even if I 'fail' over and over and struggle to get work... I know it's something I can't give up, and I really believe you're probably much the same way.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

If music and singing are your passion then don't let current circumstances get in your way.

I totally agree, however, let me reiterate the situation: I am married, and we own a home. My husband is at this time not in the least thinking about relocating to a new job and selling the house. It's very different when you don't have just yourself anymore to think about. I have a commitment to my marriage first and foremost, and it's for the long haul. But it's true that we don't know the future. His career might take us to a city within the next couple of years. One never does know...

So maybe you messed up your big shot at having a career. That doesn't mean that you can never do it. To paraphrase what you told me before about my huge mistake in choir... just because you've made one mistake doesn't automatically disqualify you from 'the game' for life.

Agreed, again. But perhaps what i didn't make clear in my other post was the fact that i didn't just flake out, or just not show up. It was a choice. I actually did not make the appointment (it would have been a private audition). Before i even met with the director, i decided this was not going to be for me.

If you regret what you did in the past for an audition, consider how much more you will regret giving up singing and training later on if you do it now. I am very much concerned that if you give up singing you'll set yourself up for a lifetime of regret later on.

I'm actually not even sure whether i regret it, or not. I just know that it has always been a love/hate relationship for me. I love singing, and music is definitely one of the ways in which i enjoy expressing myself, but i hate performing.

Lets face it, if you stop singing for even just four or five years your muscles will forget what they're doing, and it is so difficult to get 'back on the wagon'.

Yes, and this is why i stay in practice, just to keep the voice in shape. I never know of i will ever suddenly be called upon to use it one day, and if that day ever came i wouldn't want to be caught without being in practice.

I know it's something I can't give up, and I really believe you're probably much the same way.

But am i, really..? To be honest, that's something i can't even answer myself.

[Voronwen]

Well, upon waking to a new (and hopefully more positive) day, i think maybe i can answer that.

Looking back, this is probably just another of those many times when i've "tried to quit" I've been trying to quit for years because it's just more realistic for a shy person (who is now a shy person in the middle of nowhere) to do so. But in reality, i know from experience that the actual quitting is virtually impossible.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Fortunately, I don't think they make music patches. Looks like you're stuck with this addiction.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Fortunately, I don't think they make music patches. Looks like you're stuck with this addiction.

LOL

Well, all in all it's a lovely addiction to have!


Nothing like a good practice to get rid of these kinds of doldrums, right? This always happens just as i am about to 'quit'. I go to sing, and accidentally do something that confirms that i should not be quitting.

Tessar, i've been singing G's today. Yes, those G's. G6 Strong and clear and more effortless than ever in my life. I kid you not.

Unbelievable. My voice always betrays my quitting efforts this way.

[Tessar]

YAY for G6's!!!! I'm glad you've reconsidered and decided to stick with it.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

YAY for G6's!!!! I'm glad you've reconsidered and decided to stick with it.

Well.... At least for now!

Of course, i jest. More than just 'for now'. I honestly can't imagine a life totally without singing. I guess that should be telling me something!

[Varnafindë]

I'm so happy to hear that, Voronwen!

And I'll join the YAY for G6's, too!!!!

[Voronwen]

Thanks for the encouragement, Varnafinde I don't know what got into me in the last day or two.

[Tessar]

I just don't know what to believe. On the one hand I have the one guy telling me that I have a great voice, I use it really well for a Junior, and that I've got tons of potential. On the other hand I have my new voice teacher... She thinks I have decent stage presence for someone at my level, and that I'm well ahead of the curve as far as technical vocal knowledge goes, but I think she agrees with me in feeling that vocally I'm as much as a year behind. She didn't outright say it, but today in my lesson I said, "I'm really frustrated because I think that I'm singing like a Freshman or Sophomore would, not like a Junior should be," and she sort of agreed through not saying anything.

She's hoping that over a break period, like maybe Christmas or something, I'll be able to get everything clicking together. She thinks that with the vocal knowledge and self-awareness that I have, all we're really waiting for is for everything to start clicking into place.

She thinks I have a good instrument, but that it's kind of a mess right now... and I tend to agree.


ARGH. This is just so frustrating .

What we're discovering is that I am just mega-overblowing my voice to the point where I don't actually know how to not overblow it while trying to sing at a 'normal' level.

So for now we're keeping things 'tiny'. Basically I'm going to try to sing everything with the smallest, most perfectly placed sound that I can. I didn't think it would carry anywhere, but it carries really well.

Maybe I'm just a wuss, but I'm actually really grateful to be doing this. I often end up feeling like I'm "fighting" with my voice when I sing at a normal level, which is the overblowing I guess, because my vowels don't want to stay placed and it's so hard to think of everything at once. With the very tiny vocal sound, it's actually a LOT easier to keep things placed and to focus on multiple production aspects at once.

It makes sense... it's the 'tiny vowels' that my other teacher talked about. He said that once you get the tiny vowels you can put incredible amounts of pressure behind them and you'll be singing fortes that will just sheer through orchestration like nothing else. I mentioned that to my teacher and she nodded in agreement.


I honestly feel like with everything going on in my life right now, and all of this voice crap, I would give up if it weren't for Pirates. Despite the pressure of trying to learn the choreography and keep the director happy and everything else going on... it was the most relaxed that I've felt lately. Like I was actually DOING something, you know?



I talked to my voice teacher about summer programs, and she actually thinks that there's a voice program in New York that might be really good for me next summer. Also the one in New Mexico that I'm hoping to audition for. We talked briefly about me wanting to make sure that I don't go to a summer camp and accidentally end up singing in front of someone that I'm not ready to sing for yet, and she agreed with me.


I really think she's going to be a fantastic teacher for me. She is so incredibly patient, but she's very much like me in the fact that she wont accept less than a full effort, and she has no problem with me stopping in the middle of a scale to say, "Okay, that wasn't right," and start it over which I love about her. She works -very- hard, and intelligently, during our lessons, and she knows I work very hard during and outside of our lessons so I feel as though she and I have a mutual respect for each other.

At first I thought she might be timid, but I realize that she's actually just fun-loving and easy going... but I have a feeling you don't want to cross her. I don't think she would ever 'explode' at someone, but she is very much the iron fist in a velvet glove.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

she sort of agreed through not saying anything.

Be careful not to read too much into her silence. She may not have meant that at all. And even if she did, it's natural of course to have both strengths and weaknesses. This may be all she was acknowledging, the places where you're ahead, and the places where you 'need work'. That doesn't mean she thinks you were singing like a Freshman!

She thinks that with the vocal knowledge and self-awareness that I have, all we're really waiting for is for everything to start clicking into place.

Sometimes that's all it takes. I would even go as far as to say that as we journey through life, we ebb and flow in and out of these phases constantly. The voice is always changing, and we often need minor adjustments to keep things on track.

She thinks I have a good instrument, but that it's kind of a mess right now... and I tend to agree.

Did she actually say it was "a mess"? Did she say in what ways? Did you come right out and ask her?

What we're discovering is that I am just mega-overblowing my voice to the point where I don't actually know how to not overblow it while trying to sing at a 'normal' level.

Ok, here's something concrete This is important also to the health and longevity of your instrument. Deal with this now and you'll be thanking yourself later on.

With the very tiny vocal sound, it's actually a LOT easier to keep things placed and to focus on multiple production aspects at once.

Why yes, it is

I honestly feel like with everything going on in my life right now, and all of this voice crap, I would give up if it weren't for Pirates.

Oh no! Is this contageous this week?!

I really think she's going to be a fantastic teacher for me. She is so incredibly patient, but she's very much like me in the fact that she wont accept less than a full effort, and she has no problem with me stopping in the middle of a scale to say, "Okay, that wasn't right," and start it over which I love about her. She works -very- hard, and intelligently, during our lessons, and she knows I work very hard during and outside of our lessons so I feel as though she and I have a mutual respect for each other.

It's so important to have that good working relationship. And because you do work hard outside of lessons (so many at the student level do not! ), you will learn a great deal in a relatively short amount of time.

[Tessar]

My teacher and I had an awkward conversation today.

Somehow she made a comment about how she hopes that eventually I can come to trust her more. She knows that I work on all of the things that she tells me to, but she wishes I could more automatically trust her.

I realized at that moment that it was time to get, as they say, 'truth-y' . I decided to be very blunt and honest.

SO I told her that I really like her as a person, and I also think she's a fantastic teacher, but I explained both my fear that in a year she would be gone and I'd be in another studio again, and I explained that I was not unhappy to be in her studio, but I was very unhappy with the process of how it happened.

Turns out she had no idea I had been forced into her studio. She thought I had chosen to be there.

Soooooo we talked it out for a few minutes, and now she knows how I feel and we don't have to waffle around the subject any more. I hope this will allow us to be even more productive moving forward .


I'm getting really frustrated with the directors of the show.

Maybe this is just stuff I have to learn to deal with, but isn't it EXTREMELY unprofessional to be bringing your children to the rehearsal? Particularly a 2 year-old and an 8 month old? I'm not so worried about their 13 year old because she keeps out of the way. But they (the director and choreographer [they're married]) are CONSTANTLY focused on the babies instead of what's going on onstage.

I think they're also doing too many things. The husband teaches voice at our school, and he's directing our show and then another one at a local theater. The wife does all kinds of freelance choreography stuff, and is doing our choreography and the choreography for the same other show her husband is doing.

I just remember my experience at the summer workshop. Those teachers were FOCUSED. They didn't bring in outside distractions. They weren't checking their cellphones, watching babies, or staring down at their score. They knew the music (which neither the director nor the choreographer seem to actually know very well), they had a plan, and lazy people were not rewarded.

Speaking of which... My policemen chorus members don't know their music, barely know their blocking, and are constantly screwing up because of those things. They just don't care. It wouldn't bother me so much except that the director KNOWS they're lazy and yet he offered some of THEM a part in a musical outside of school. He needed baritones, and he picked them.

SERIOUSLY?!!?

Who knows his blocking the day after it has been taught? Me. Who knows all of his music, AND the chorus members' music? Me. Who has been at every rehearsal and NOT shown up late EVERY TIME? Me.

Maybe I have an inflated ego, and I'm just a whiner, but it is so frustrating to work this hard and then see some lazy jerk get a paying role over me. Either I'm just a horrible singer and no one wants me, or this whole department is totally effed up.

[Voronwen]

Originally Posted by Tessar

I hope this will allow us to be even more productive moving forward

I'm sure that it can't hurt.

isn't it EXTREMELY unprofessional

Um... yeah, it is

I just remember my experience at the summer workshop. Those teachers were FOCUSED. They didn't bring in outside distractions. They weren't checking their cellphones, watching babies, or staring down at their score. They knew the music (which neither the director nor the choreographer seem to actually know very well), they had a plan, and lazy people were not rewarded.

You've experienced a higher level of professionalism already and now going back to this 'community' stuff is one big eye-roll Trust me, i know how you feel.

Speaking of which... My policemen chorus members don't know their music, barely know their blocking, and are constantly screwing up because of those things. They just don't care. It wouldn't bother me so much except that the director KNOWS they're lazy and yet he offered some of THEM a part in a musical outside of school. He needed baritones, and he picked them.

*Tsk tsk* This sounds like a typical case of community favoritism!

Either I'm just a horrible singer and no one wants me, or this whole department is totally effed up.

You're not a horrible singer, you just didn't happen to be the right person's sister's teacher's daughter's cousin or whatever At this level, this junk happens all the time.