04-05-2008, 09:37 PM | #261 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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* bumpitty-bump *
(and my apologies... I thought this was in The Silmarillion Forum)
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
04-05-2008, 10:11 PM | #262 |
The Ñoldóran
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Thanks for finding this! Way too tired to read it all tonight, but I probably will in the morning. Read this essay probably fifteen times, it's my favorite thing that Tolkien wrote.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-05-2008, 10:12 PM | #263 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
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I suspected you might like it when you were talking about HoME quotes in the Quote Game.
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My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! |
04-06-2008, 06:52 PM | #264 |
Elf Lord
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I just read it for the first time last night. One impression I get is that we just don't know, do we? I mean, different folks have different beliefs about where we're from and where we're going but if we're being honest none of us know for sure whether we're right, the "others" are right, we're both right, or we're both wrong. Or some combination. But one thing is certain, both Finrod and Andreth were richer for having the conversation and for remaining civil whether in agreement or disagreement. We could all take a lesson, I think.
I somehow doubt this was Tolkien's intent (or at least not his main intent) but it's just one reader's impression. For such a short piece, there is a lot to it. The part about Eru coming into the world himself made me think of Tom Bombadil.
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04-06-2008, 07:23 PM | #265 | |||||||
The Ñoldóran
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You're lucky. It's an amazing piece the first time around, but it just gets better the more times you read it.
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What affects me the most about the Athrabeth (and even though I've read it uncounted times, it still makes me cry every time I read it), is the hope in the face of despair. The overwhelming hope that Finrod feels for the future, the idea that even though he doesn't know what the future holds for him, he will cling to estel and it will see him through. Argh! I'm getting misty already! I'd better stop while I'm ahead...
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-06-2008, 09:19 PM | #266 | ||
Elf Lord
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My mom is 76 years old and we've been having many discussions lately about the impending inevitable, long-term care, insurance, funerals, and the great beyond. Estel is difficult for me. I'm an Amdir kind of guy. I empathize strongly with Andreth in this. I understand the concept of Estel and want to believe but it isn't easy. Maybe it isn't in Man's nature. Maybe it is the marring that makes Estel so hard. Sorry to bring in the real world but the parallels, especially in matters of faith, are hard not to draw. But, to step back into Arda for a moment, I don't necessarily agree that Andreth is wrong about Man's original fate. How can you be so sure that she is?
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04-06-2008, 09:48 PM | #267 | |
The Ñoldóran
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If it's okay, I'm not going to address the first part of your post, because those are personal reflections, and you don't need my comments on them.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian Last edited by Curufin : 04-06-2008 at 09:49 PM. |
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04-06-2008, 10:22 PM | #268 |
Elf Lord
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I realize it is said in several places, but Finrod's words in the Athrabeth show that he seemed pretty open to other ideas. I think he was wise enough to realize that Andreth was maybe right and the lore of the Elves was maybe right, but that in the long run it doesn't really matter if even they both ended up wrong. Finrod having Estel means he knows it's all going to work out for the good, that in the universe created by Eru it could work out no other way but good.
"Whither you go may you find light. Await us there, my brother - and me." He has beliefs, but even more importantly he has Estel. I may be totally making this up and projecting too much of myself into the text. This is with just one reading, mind you, but I promise it won't be the last.
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04-07-2008, 07:20 AM | #269 | |||||
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So I suppose it's my speculation that Andreth (and Men) have been misled by Morgoth into believing Death is something evil, but to me that is the most satisfying conclusion; that death was a gift from Eru that has been Marred. Quote:
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That part touches me deeply - the idea that he's willing to fight for good, despite knowing that he's likely going to die. But he knows - he has Estel, anyway, that things will work out for good in the end. It's incredibly touching. And heart-breaking. Quote:
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-17-2008, 03:33 PM | #270 | |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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I'm glad I found this thread so soon after joining. It's my single favorite text among Tolkien's writings.
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But I doubt that I would have loved it quite as much if he had only put those thoughts into an essay - the whole setting with the interaction between Finrod and Andreth is what makes it so beautiful. |
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04-17-2008, 03:47 PM | #271 |
Elf Lord
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Welcome, Varnafindë. Glad you're here.
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04-17-2008, 05:52 PM | #272 | |
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Glad to see you're going to be playing Andreth in my first age RP.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
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04-17-2008, 06:38 PM | #273 | |
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I hope we can make it a good RP.
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04-17-2008, 06:41 PM | #274 |
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We need more than just you and me, but we could start it with just us.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-17-2008, 06:47 PM | #275 |
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I don't necessarily mind my gift per se, Illuvatar, but if it's OK by you, I won't mind it if you take a bit longer to deliver it.
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04-17-2008, 06:48 PM | #276 |
Elf Lord
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I can't do two - just don't have the time - but I could drop the one we haven't started back in the White City and participate in this one.
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04-17-2008, 06:51 PM | #277 |
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That one is going to be starting, but it's up to you.
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Then Celegorm no more would stay, And Curufin smiled and turned away... ~The Lay of Leithian |
04-17-2008, 07:29 PM | #278 |
Princess of the Noldor (and Administrative Empress of the Lone Islands)
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I guess that they might both be slow enough for you to do both - especially this one - but I can see why you would choose only one for starters.
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04-20-2008, 11:21 AM | #279 |
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I see we have two threads on the Athrabeth active at the same time. I've merged the thread 'complete discussion of the Athrabeth' into the 'Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth' thread.
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