Gays, lesbians, bisexuals

[The Gaffer]

Hear hear. I think it's pretty unseemly for a majority to protest its lack of free speech when it is clearly running the country.

That material looks like far more useful advice than "don't do it".

[inked]

Which country, Gaffer?
**********************

TWFM,
WE do what we can in the name of LOVE (tough LOVE, perhaps, but LOVE)!
**********************

I thought IDAHO was
a) a state
b) a potato
c) a declaration of job title
d) a request for an identification of (c)
e) an acronym for something or other related to agricultural implements
f) an typical Eurovision political gesture by conformists against a non-existent figment of imagination (the -phobia part, that is),

but I thought I'd contribute usefully. See, another benefit provided at American taxpayer expense to the world on the net!

[Lotesse]

Hey, you guys (sorry to interrupt, inked) but I thought I'd drop in here for a sec, because I have something I've always wanted to ask and now it appears I can. Me, I'm bi, and always have been, although I've only had one girlfriend and that was 11 years ago. With all my gay friends, my whole life, I've always been made painfully aware of how little the gay community regards bisexualism, as if it were "false", or wishy-washy, or otherwise scoffable. So, most of the time my entire life I've kept my mouth shut and my hands to myself around especially my lesbian friends, for fear of being looked down on or misjudged, but also my guy love interests, for fear of being thought - oh, I don't know.
Anybody have any input here about this phenomenon? Because I really want to know.

[The Wizard from Milan]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Hey, you guys (sorry to interrupt, inked) but I thought I'd drop in here for a sec, because I have something I've always wanted to ask and now it appears I can. Me, I'm bi, and always have been, although I've only had one girlfriend and that was 11 years ago. With all my gay friends, my whole life, I've always been made painfully aware of how little the gay community regards bisexualism, as if it were "false", or wishy-washy, or otherwise scoffable. So, most of the time my entire life I've kept my mouth shut and my hands to myself around especially my lesbian friends, for fear of being looked down on or misjudged, but also my guy love interests, for fear of being thought - oh, I don't know.
Anybody have any input here about this phenomenon? Because I really want to know.

I am sorry you have not been treated with the due respect by gays. And it is true that some gay put down bisexuality at least on occasion; something that I think is wrong. I think that some gays think think that all bisexuals are fake because there are so many gays (without any bisexual inclination) who call themselves bisexuals because (in their view) bisexuality is less stigmatized by society than homosexuality. I believe that these gays are wrong.

[Lotesse]

But it has always been my experience that being bi is equally as stigmatizing (that CAN'T be a word, oh well) as being gay; straights generally speaking put bi and gay side by side. The thing is, in my opinion, truly bi people are a rarity as opposed to strictly gay or strictly straight. I mean, I hardly ever meet or run into other bi girls (I've got bi-guy friends, but where are the bi-girls?) Then again, my bi-guy friends really feel, to me, to be predominantly if not completely gay, saying (and a lot of times acting out that)they're bi - I'm so confused. What do you think?

[The Gaffer]

I've known gay friend who denied that it was possible to be truly bi, and had a similar attitude to that described by the Wizard above. I never really understood it. I guess straights don't have a monopoly on being narrow minded on occasion.

It seems to me that there are important differences between men and women in how their sexuality works. (Don't ask me what they are!) Maybe that's what's going on here though.

Not exactly helpful, I know

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

IMO the majority of society is bisexual

[Nurvingiel]

I've heard that bisexual people were stigmatized that way Lotesse, that sucks! I've also heard transgendered people are also discriminated against.

Straight people are defenitely not responsible for all the narrow-mindedness with respect to sexuality. Every human being has the capacity for tunnel vision. Many straight people are totally open and accepting to gay and bi and trans people (like by 85-year-old grandma), and some gay people think there is only one way to be gay.

I kind of see sexuality as a 3-D continuum. Okay, it makes a lousy mental image, but bear with me. I sort of agree with you Chrys - I think most people are at least a little bit bi. I am a little tiny bit anyway, but I'm not bisexual. It makes sense in my head. Most of the time I don't worry myself with sexuality of myself or others (though it may appear different on this board).

[Rían]

Originally Posted by inked

See, another benefit provided at American taxpayer expense to the world on the net!

2 random thoughts about that taxpayer-paid-for pamphlet -

1. illustrations would have been perfectly sufficient

2. it made me think, "where is the love and the beauty?"

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

i have to say that that little black book thing seems like a good idea, and that sort of thing has been happening for a few years in britain, certainly where i grew up, including details on what to do if you experience homophobic hate crime and so on, how to use condoms correctly, myths confounded and so on

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

2 random thoughts about that taxpayer-paid-for pamphlet -

1. illustrations would have been perfectly sufficient

2. it made me think, "where is the love and the beauty?"

Actually this ties into IRex's comment that it basically amounts to gay porn... um... it's just a picture of a penis guys.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Actually this ties into IRex's comment that it basically amounts to gay porn... um... it's just a picture of a penis guys.

like, we all have one, us guys anyway

[Nerdanel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

like, we all have one, us guys anyway

i don't though.. is there something wrong with me?

no really.. i agree with rÃ*an that they could've used illustrations instead, 'cos even though it's nothing but a penis, there are people who are sensitive. perhaps they're not the ones who ougth to be scared away.

[Nurvingiel]

I like the idea of the real picture, because an illustration has the message, probably unintentionally, that penises are icky. "We'll show you how to put on a condom, but on a cartoon penis instead of a real one, because penises are gross." That's what I hear - not really the message we want to send in a safe sex book.
It's okay to feel sensitive or shy about pictures of naked people, but let's examine why. Our society has some serious aversion to male nudity. Look at movies (if memory serves correctly) - you can have all the gratuitous boob shots you want in a PG-13 movie, a totally naked woman in a 14+ movie, but a one-second shot of a penis automatically sends a movie to 18+. I don't know why we have this penis aversion, but we should try to overcome this, at least in sex ed. (Not that a class of teenagers still won't snigger every time penis is said, but IIRC my class stopped sniggering after a while, since our teacher was being mature and upfront about the whole thing.)
I think we should talk about sex in an adult way and not try to hide details or be ashamed about it, since I don't think we should teach young people that sex is gross or something to feel ashamed of.

Looking over it again, I do think this book is a good idea. The wording put me off at first, but this probably annoyed me less when I was a teenager. I don't see the point of making every "ing" verb end with "in'" and replacing "that" with "dat" just to look cool, or jamming swearwords in where they don't really add effect. This takes away from the frankness and upfrontness of the book IMO.

However, I think this statement is entirely appropriate:
(On HIV, part 1 of the condom guide) (censorship mine)

There is no cure and getting infected with an HIV strain that's resistent to today's medications is not exactly how you want to be f****d.

Wordy McWord.

I also appreciate the emphasis on using a lot of lube.


Now I have a difficult question for everyone: why is it that there hasn't been a condom designed specifically for anal intercourse? Apparently there is more friction than with vaginal intercourse, and therefore more wear on the condom. To me this warrants a special design.

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

Originally Posted by nurvi

Now I have a difficult question for everyone: why is it that there hasn't been a condom designed specifically for anal intercourse? Apparently there is more friction than with vaginal intercourse, and therefore more wear on the condom. To me this warrants a special design

well, they (the companies) seem happy enough with just the 'extra strong', but you are right, there should be specificly produced ones, i mean you wouldnt want, erm, breaking, for either participant

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by Last Child of Ungoliant

well, they (the companies) seem happy enough with just the 'extra strong', but you are right, there should be specificly produced ones, i mean you wouldnt want, erm, breaking, for either participant

Erm what, the condom? Exactly, the whole point of employing a barrier method is that there is, well, a barrier. No rips, tears, holes, weak spots, or whatever!

[Lotesse]

Nurvingiel, you brought up a really good point about condom design. Indeed, I also wonder why they haven't designed and marketed special condoms just for anal sex? It seems to me a perfectly sensible idea, and think of all the money the condom companies would make... wonder why they haven't made one yet.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nerdanel

i don't though.. is there something wrong with me?

Every time we go camping in the wilderness, I really want one!! Otherwise, I don't - I'm really happy with my body It's such fun being a woman!

no really.. i agree with rÃ*an that they could've used illustrations instead, 'cos even though it's nothing but a penis, there are people who are sensitive. perhaps they're not the ones who ougth to be scared away.

Thanks for expressing your agreement with me, Nel - IMO that's an politically unpopular thing to say, and I appreciate you speaking up.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I like the idea of the real picture, because an illustration has the message, probably unintentionally, that penises are icky.

no, no, no!
(well, you say that's what you hear, but I certainly don't.)

It's okay to feel sensitive or shy about pictures of naked people, but let's examine why. ...

You know what I tell my kids when we talk about modesty and covering up our "private parts"? I tell them we cover up those areas not because they're "icky" or "gross", but because they're beautiful and special, and not to be shown just anywhere or any place or at any time, or to anyone. They're a wonderfully designed part of the human body that God intended for special pleasure and closeness between a husband and wife, and that those areas need to be protected and kept from other people until that time, because they're so special. NO ONE has the right to see or touch those areas, and they need to tell us right away if anyone tries. They know only a doctor can see those areas, and then only with our permission and with us there.

I don't know why we have this penis aversion, but we should try to overcome this, at least in sex ed. ...

IMO the right attitude is not aversion, but respect and privacy, because it's a special part of a human, both physically and spiritually. I don't let a bunch of 1st graders handle a beautiful, fragile antique vase. and neither do I let ANYONE else see the wonderful private parts of body but my husband.

I don't think we should teach young people that sex is gross or something to feel ashamed of.

I don't, either. I think modern sex ed devalues sex, personally.

[inked]

for those in the life and style of homosexuality, what do you think of the following?

the marriage issue and gay young folk
http://washblade.com/2005/5-20/view/columns/young.cfm


lesbians and reality
http://washblade.com/2005/5-20/view/columns/reality.cfm

and, because we care about your health:
Conn. figures show jump in venereal disease among gays
HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) — Figures show that the incidence of the venereal disease syphilis has increased in Connecticut in recent years, particularly among gay men. Forty-five new cases of primary and secondary syphilis in Connecticut residents were reported to the state Department of Public Health in 2004, more than triple the number of cases reported just four years ago and 50 percent more than the year before. Of those 45 new cases, 34 were gay men. The disease is spreading quickly among gay suburban men because they’re having unprotected sex, said Heidi Jenkins, director of the state health department’s STD control program. “It’s a great concern to us,� Jenkins said.
(more topics at http://washblade.com/2005/5-20/news/healthnews/hibs.cfm)