06-30-2005, 07:36 PM | #261 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I don't think you even have to give a reason in the US.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-30-2005, 07:39 PM | #262 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm sorry, EB, I don't remember your beliefs - do you think god/gods or some higher being exists, or not? and why?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-30-2005, 08:08 PM | #263 | |||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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If you want to claim that justice is the ultimate standard, then I'll just ask you if you think it's right to be just. At that point, I imagine you'll say right is meaningless IYO, so I will just not listen to your argument anymore at that point. I know justice is justice, and I also know cruelty is cruelty. So which one is right, according to you? I know which one is right, but apparently you think right is without meaning. Fine - that's your choice - but again, don't tell me what is right and wrong (or just/unjust) then, because according to you, it's without meaning. And I won't waste my time on meaningless things. Right and wrong DO have meaning to me. I try to do what I think is right, and try NOT to do what I think is wrong. In a moral matter, I will listen to someone and consider what they say if they think something is right or wrong, but if they say right or wrong is irrelevant, then I won't bother to listen to them. It says nothing to say "just is just" or "kind is kind". That type of statement is just a rather - I don't know, I suppose an unsporting way, IMO, to avoid using the terms right/wrong, since it's obvious that it IS an appeal to a common standard of right and wrong that we all hold. I can say "mean is mean" and "kind is kind" - they're the same style of statement - so which should I try to do and which should I try NOT to do, according to a person that says right and wrong are meaningless? Quote:
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BUT - is it wrong to cause harm, in your opinion? If you say that's irrelevant, then I won't listen to you anymore whenever you tell me I should not do something because it's harmful, because I'll know that it's meaningless to you, so I won't waste my time on it. I'll just continue to go on my own opinions of right and wrong. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 07-01-2005 at 06:53 AM. |
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06-30-2005, 09:26 PM | #264 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'd really like to stop and highlight this - people, if you have a worldview similar to IRex's, then one result is that you might come to think that breeding is the supremely important thing. Does that really mesh with what your heart tells you is important? When you love a person, is breeding really uppermost in your mind? (I'm not talking about sex , I'm talking about breeding!) Is the only meaning behind beauty that it somehow helps us to breed? Do you guys REALLY buy into that? I certainly don't. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-30-2005, 09:36 PM | #265 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Right ... if that's all you can see. you say "none of these things are meaningless according to me", yet your definition of meaning is meaningless - or perhaps more accurately, of no value - to me. What good is love if all it does it make you breed? If that's true, then love is worthless, IMO. If the only thing good about courage is that it helps you breed, then courage is meaningless to me. If the only thing good about humor is that it might get you a roll in the hay and maybe you'll pass on your genes, then I say why bother to pass on your genes in a world where humor is only about breeding? Personally, I'd rather not be in a world where breeding is the main thing - pretty boring, among other things. I don't think it fits the reality of what I feel and observe every day. But I guess you do.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-01-2005, 02:06 PM | #266 | ||||||||
Quasi Evil
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You say your only reason for discriminating is because you are so worried about the homosexuals damaging themselves by marrying but you give us no evidence that gay marriage causes such horrific damage. Only indirect and implied supposition from religious dogma (god made boys and girls with different parts for a reason and doing stuff the parts weren’t designed to do might cause some damage blah blah…). And you are certainly free to use this particular reasoning to speak against gay marriage but actually overtly and purposefully attempting to BAN gays from marrying is going WAY over the line because you are impeding another individuals liberty and freedoms only because of your religious values. Why not just say well I think its wrong for gays to marry and be done with it? And those sick sinners who ignore you well that’s their own problem right? Why don’t you ban every single behavior that will also cause people damage and/or send them straight to hell? Consistency is important if you want to have any credibility… Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-01-2005, 02:34 PM | #267 | |||||||
Quasi Evil
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Location: Maryland, US
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And im not misunderstanding you. You said that because I don’t mention a soul (which you refer to as data (!!)) when I talk about morals that Im therefore wrong. Well once you start referencing the soul as “data” you’ve completely undermined your own argument. I stick with the facts of what we know. Not introduce an untestable undefinable concept as my data… Quote:
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take a look around you. What do you see. Life begetting life. In uncountable numbers. Each and every day. The very programming for properly breeding is inside every cell of our bodies. Recombination defines us all. that right there should tell you about the importance of breeding if its blue prints are part and parcel of our actual physical essence. If we didn’t breed life would die off. So for you to say that breeding is low on the totum pole… well not really sure how you can possibly defend that notion. Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-01-2005, 02:49 PM | #268 | ||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-01-2005, 02:49 PM | #269 |
Lady Tipple & Queen of Blessed Thistle
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Location: I've been told it's all in my head
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Two hydrogen atoms walk into a bar. One says, "I've lost my electron." The other says, "Are you sure?" The first replies, "Yes, I'm positive..."
While studying for my degrees at OSU, it became apparent that professors were quick to dictate theories as facts and unquestionable. Not much if anything was ever left to review or ponderance. Not nearly as much as the 'system' is touted for, I was a good student, and enjoy thinking outside the box, but I'm attending my third university (Masters in Engineering) and linear-thinking rather than conceptual-thinking is the norm. An occasional professor proves the rule of course....but in general, people feel ballasted with science as much as religion is used in such a manner to buy into theories without having to place much thought into it...all for a false sense of 'comfortableness/security' in ones beliefs.... In no way am I discussing Mooters here, rather sharing my college/science experience and thoughts there of. I just want to encourage “true thought” on these subjects instead of battle lines of distinction…usually not to learn otherwise. Now now, why don’t we all join for a Balrog-fired pizza at the café….my treat. BTW Two important ways to approach any discussion thread as ignitable as this one..... 1. Everyone opines on the subject, displaying what they believe, have experienced, & suspect without challenges. 2. Debate-style, tends to be cyclic with no true converts across lines of thought. Benefit = tend to get interesting thought-processes that prove more insightful to the person writing...but worth it.
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Beer + Pizza = N'uff said Happy to be here The HACBR has been alerted to my postings…..Hobbits Against Constant Beer References Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. --Ben Franklin I want my Mooter T-Shirt! |
07-02-2005, 08:37 PM | #270 | |||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'll just hit a few points, because I'm getting ready for the 4th of July block party and going to Ecuador ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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07-02-2005, 09:35 PM | #271 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And a few from the other post ...
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If you don't recognize it, then you certainly shouldn't use it as input data. If you don't see a soul in yourself or others, then your way of talking makes a fair amount of sense, at least sometimes. I observe something in myself every day that I refer to as a soul, and I must take it into account, or my analysis would be seriously defective. Among other things, it evaluates my instincts and genetic urges and decides when they are appropriate to act on or not; therefore, necessarily, it is NOT ITSELF an instinct or a genetic behavior. It is outside of my instincts and genetic urges, and judges them. Quote:
To me, breeding is pretty much "I got an urge to copulate". IMO, that's not important. Love, OTOH, IS important, and also song-worthy! If you define love in terms of breeding, IMO you have a sorely deficient definition. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 07-02-2005 at 09:41 PM. |
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07-06-2005, 02:25 PM | #272 | ||||||
Quasi Evil
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And its interesting to note that you admit to agreeing with muslim extremist ideology in this way in their efforts to make a Taliban like religious state that oppresses people based on the writings of a holy book… I guess its consistent though and to hold to your beliefs that discriminating against gays is ok you have to take this distasteful position. Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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07-07-2005, 04:45 PM | #273 | ||||||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-10-2006, 04:15 PM | #274 |
An enigma in a conundrum
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 6,476
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Theological Opinions , PART II
Come one come all
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
02-10-2006, 04:20 PM | #275 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I know God exists, He called me at 1430hrs. and told me so.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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02-11-2006, 07:31 AM | #276 | |
Warrior of the House of Hador
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I don't know if all of this has been said as I haven't read the other thread, except a few posts.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
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02-12-2006, 09:08 AM | #277 | |
Head of the Department for the Invention and Propagation of Sugar, Spice and Everything Nice!
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And please, don't bung Nazis or terrorists into it. They are too extreme, and I'm pretty sure I'll never be like that...
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"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?" Death thought about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice." -Terry Pratchett, Sourcery Join the Harry Potter discussion, click here |
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02-12-2006, 12:47 PM | #278 | ||
Elf Lord
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I also don't approve of picking and choosing what we agree with from the standard God gives us. If his scripture is written in such a way that it is clearly down on women and up on slavery, we have two choices. Either accept this perspective as God's righteous will regarding women and slavery, or reject those scriptures as not God's word. If we can pick and choose what we want to agree with from God's word, then we're just living according to our consciences rather than upon revealed truth. However, I also think that things written in the scripture should make moral sense to us. So if I don't understand something in the Bible and it seems morally repugnant to me, I feel very strongly that that is the time to talk with the Holy Spirit about it, as he is supposed to be our Counselor. I suppose if something doesn't make moral sense to you about the Qur'an, you could talk to another Muslim. Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-12-2006 at 01:24 PM. |
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02-12-2006, 02:42 PM | #279 | ||
Elf Lord
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Since I'm sure God has created our personalities, thoughts etc., there should be nothing unexpected from his point of view, and everything could be predicted. One would make his choices based on the personality God gave him. Quote:
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02-13-2006, 12:15 PM | #280 |
Elf Lord
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Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
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Here's a quiz for Christians on their understanding of Jesus in relation to the received orthodox tradition:
http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=131773 You can take it on a secular level too, but the ranking is per the received tradition.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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