Classical Music - Page 13

Elfhelm · 12-02-2003, 04:58 PM

1. In my lowly opinion, just about anything is better than Tchaikovsky.

2. I have the entire Ring Cycle (Solti's) on my iPod so I can hear it whenever I want. Sometimes I listen to all 15 hours at a sitting. I don't have any attention span issues with Wagner.

3. Since Stravinsky had basically 4 periods, and only one of them was predominantly rythmic, it can't possibly be true that he has no melody.

4. Opera, which I love, is one part of classical (not the time period) music, but so are Strauss waltzes which I abhor. Mozart wrote operas, Beethoven wrote one, too. Any other questions? Are composers who only write operas real classical composers? Are tennie runners shoes?

5. People who think good music stopped with the death of Mozart are usually equally lazy in their assessment of when it started.

6. Stravinsky wasn't a postmodernist, technically. Postmodernism, as the name suggests, is a reaction to modernism. Modernism pretty much covers the period from the discovery of Troy to the rise of the Nazis. Postmodernism is the period from World War II to present. Modernists consider themselves older than their predecessors. Postmodernists like to transcend time and consider themselves contemporary with their predecessors. It's a lot more complicated than that, but I am a postmodernist so that's my personal definition.

p.s. I'm just dropping by to say hi. My email address is on my profile if anyone feels like writing.

Ornelírë Mistë · 12-02-2003, 05:45 PM

Postmodernism
I got some Mahler, which I havent heard yet

Elfhelm · 12-02-2003, 07:49 PM

Cool, thanks for the pomo link. I disagree with some of the details, but so what? Thanks.

Mahler is one of my favorite post-romantics. hehehe...

hectorberlioz · 12-02-2003, 08:41 PM

well then, i guess "postmodernist" was the wrong word.
anyway, there are a lot of shostakovich haters out there.
calling his music "screeches" and "bangs".

P.S. maybe Stravinsky wasnt at a loss of melody, but It all comes down to my not liking him.

, just my personal opinion. not trying to publicly denounce him as a piece of crap.
I think Strauss's waltzes are wonderful. most of them anyway. a lot of them seem a quite repetitious, as does a lot of mozart's piano music.
Mahler was one of Anton Bruckner's pupils.
I like all of his works so far. with the exception of maybe his first symphony. its one of those droning peices that cant really develop a tune.
however, his sixth symphony is wonderful in tunes.

Voted Greatest first Symphony: Symphonie Fantastique

Elfhelm · 12-03-2003, 01:16 PM

I hear some Shostakovich influence in the RotK soundtrack. Personally, I love his music.

Stravinsky was one of Rimsky's pupils. I think we are fortunate that he lived such a long life. If he had only lived as long as Mozart, he may never have written the stuff you don't like. I consider him one of the primary moving forces of the 20th century and estimate his genius beyond that of almost every one of his contemporaries. But I agree that there are certain phases he got into that do nothing for me. My attitude is, he isn't at my beck and call so I have to take what I can get. Just one opinion.

(hehehe I am still avoiding the movies board, but I had to visit this thread.

)

hectorberlioz · 12-04-2003, 12:10 AM

glad you're visiting though Elfhelm.

.
its not been to bad.

Amy Beach is quite an Impressive composer.
she wrote the "gaelic" symphony. and some nice piano stuff.

My Dvorak: Requiem cd should be here tomorrow! it had to be imported from Germany

.

I'll tell you guys about it when i listen to it a couple of times.

Ornelírë Mistë · 12-04-2003, 04:41 PM

Did you like Mahler's fifth? Too much schoolwork, no time. Screeches and bangs? Some of Shostakovich's pieces seem like impish dancing to me. But I love it all.

**Nurvingiel** · 12-04-2003, 05:18 PM

My dad really likes Mahler. He wanted our local symphony orchestra to play one of his symphonies, but the conductor said it was too hard. One of the few things they're not ready to play.

hectorberlioz · 12-05-2003, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Did you like Mahler's fifth? Too much schoolwork, no time. Screeches and bangs? Some of Shostakovich's pieces seem like impish dancing to me. But I love it all.

One of the things I cant seem to get ahold of....

did you know that the most popular subject for music is Goethe's "Faust"?

btw Nirv, sounds like your dad has good taste. but i guess you cant go wrong in classical...

Elfhelm · 12-05-2003, 05:01 PM

Nurv, how far is Vancouver? They play Mahler there. In fact, one of the only performances of the 8th in the last ten years was in BC. The 8th is a mind-blowing enormous work that needs a huge city to put together.

I don't really know Amy Beach's stuff. Which pieces are you hearing and what do you find good, hector?

**Nurvingiel** · 12-05-2003, 06:49 PM

Vancouver is 5 hours away. I actually live there, but I wouldn't want to see Mahler without my dad, he's the true Mahler fan. It wouldn't be the same. Sometime, maybe he'll drive down. It would be super fun!

hectorberlioz · 12-05-2003, 10:18 PM

oh, Amy Beach, yes. well she has a lot of piano stuff mostly.
I just started listening to her stuff, so im no expert.

btw, Mahler's 8th is a 'faust symphony'.

**Nurvingiel** · 12-06-2003, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hectorberlioz
btw, Mahler's 8th is a 'faust symphony'.

What's a faust symphony?

hectorberlioz · 12-06-2003, 10:12 PM

'Faust' is a literarry work by Goethe.
and mahler did a symphony on it. as did a lot of other composers.

Elfhelm · 12-07-2003, 04:02 AM

Goethe felt that only Mozart could have done justice to it, but he died too young. Beethoven expressed an interest in setting it. It was Mephistopheles who they liked. He had that anti-heroic appeal that was similar to Milton's Satan. I guess they thought it took a lot of nerve to wager with God himself. This romantic figure, if I may turn into Commander Data (RIP), recurs in Byron's Childe Harold who less malicious, and Shaw's Devil. Mephisto also inspired some piano pieces and possibly even inspired the diablo violin tuning. (Enough Mr. Data!)

The ending of Goethe's Faust, as opposed to Marlowe's Doctor Faustus, is one of hope in salvation. And the second part of Mahler's 8th is a setting of that ending. So, it's the closest thing we have to a Mahler opera.

hectorberlioz · 12-07-2003, 12:39 PM

i noticed mahler never wrote an opera.
and haydn? i've never heard of any of his operas except for 'the creation' which is more of an oratario.]
and grieg never wrote an opera, to my knowledge.

someone once said: "The Magic Flute is the only opera that i've heard that could have concievably been composed by God."

Ornelírë Mistë · 12-07-2003, 03:35 PM

Interesting quote. What about Le Nozze de Figaro? Ultimate forgiveness in that last act, like the Prodigal Son? Fabulous, I saw it a few years ago.

I've finally listened to Mahler's 5th Symphony, recorded by the Berlin Philharmoniker, coincidentally. It's fabulous. I thought that with such extensive brass at the beginning that it wouldn't have string melodies as lovely as it has. It's very dynamic. It seems like Holywood tries to emulate in movie music, but they get it all wrong and sappy. I hate Holywood.

And also- BRENT SPINER'S DEAD? Since when?

hectorberlioz · 12-07-2003, 03:45 PM

who is brent spiner?

hey! georg solti is dead! he died in '96. now how come i wasthe last hear of it?

Alqualaure · 12-08-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

And also- BRENT SPINER'S DEAD? Since when?

No, Brent Spiner is NOT dead! LOL - Perhaps I should put this in spoiler tags... but be warned: you may not like what you read there!

Spiner's Star Trek character, Data, was killed in the last Trek movie, "Nemesis". I cried!

Hope that clears up the misunderstanding!

Alqua

PS to Hector - Sorry I haven't been able to participate lately - I just read all the pages I missed and have much to say - unfortunately I'm sick as a dog - hope to join in again soon!

hectorberlioz · 12-08-2003, 03:24 PM

hey, thats ok alq. im sick with the flue. you probably have the flue too i presume?

12-02-2003, 04:58 PM	#241
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	1. In my lowly opinion, just about anything is better than Tchaikovsky. 2. I have the entire Ring Cycle (Solti's) on my iPod so I can hear it whenever I want. Sometimes I listen to all 15 hours at a sitting. I don't have any attention span issues with Wagner. 3. Since Stravinsky had basically 4 periods, and only one of them was predominantly rythmic, it can't possibly be true that he has no melody. 4. Opera, which I love, is one part of classical (not the time period) music, but so are Strauss waltzes which I abhor. Mozart wrote operas, Beethoven wrote one, too. Any other questions? Are composers who only write operas real classical composers? Are tennie runners shoes? 5. People who think good music stopped with the death of Mozart are usually equally lazy in their assessment of when it started. 6. Stravinsky wasn't a postmodernist, technically. Postmodernism, as the name suggests, is a reaction to modernism. Modernism pretty much covers the period from the discovery of Troy to the rise of the Nazis. Postmodernism is the period from World War II to present. Modernists consider themselves older than their predecessors. Postmodernists like to transcend time and consider themselves contemporary with their predecessors. It's a lot more complicated than that, but I am a postmodernist so that's my personal definition. p.s. I'm just dropping by to say hi. My email address is on my profile if anyone feels like writing. __________________ cya

12-02-2003, 05:45 PM	#242
Ornelírë Mistë Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Postmodernism I got some Mahler, which I havent heard yet __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

12-02-2003, 07:49 PM	#243
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Cool, thanks for the pomo link. I disagree with some of the details, but so what? Thanks. Mahler is one of my favorite post-romantics. hehehe... __________________ cya

12-02-2003, 08:41 PM	#244
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	well then, i guess "postmodernist" was the wrong word. anyway, there are a lot of shostakovich haters out there. calling his music "screeches" and "bangs". P.S. maybe Stravinsky wasnt at a loss of melody, but It all comes down to my not liking him., just my personal opinion. not trying to publicly denounce him as a piece of crap. I think Strauss's waltzes are wonderful. most of them anyway. a lot of them seem a quite repetitious, as does a lot of mozart's piano music. Mahler was one of Anton Bruckner's pupils. I like all of his works so far. with the exception of maybe his first symphony. its one of those droning peices that cant really develop a tune. however, his sixth symphony is wonderful in tunes. Voted Greatest first Symphony: Symphonie Fantastique __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-03-2003, 01:16 PM	#245
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	I hear some Shostakovich influence in the RotK soundtrack. Personally, I love his music. Stravinsky was one of Rimsky's pupils. I think we are fortunate that he lived such a long life. If he had only lived as long as Mozart, he may never have written the stuff you don't like. I consider him one of the primary moving forces of the 20th century and estimate his genius beyond that of almost every one of his contemporaries. But I agree that there are certain phases he got into that do nothing for me. My attitude is, he isn't at my beck and call so I have to take what I can get. Just one opinion. (hehehe I am still avoiding the movies board, but I had to visit this thread. ) __________________ cya

12-04-2003, 12:10 AM	#246
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	glad you're visiting though Elfhelm. . its not been to bad. Amy Beach is quite an Impressive composer. she wrote the "gaelic" symphony. and some nice piano stuff. My Dvorak: Requiem cd should be here tomorrow! it had to be imported from Germany . I'll tell you guys about it when i listen to it a couple of times. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-04-2003, 04:41 PM	#247
Ornelírë Mistë Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Did you like Mahler's fifth? Too much schoolwork, no time. Screeches and bangs? Some of Shostakovich's pieces seem like impish dancing to me. But I love it all. __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

12-05-2003, 05:01 PM	#250
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Nurv, how far is Vancouver? They play Mahler there. In fact, one of the only performances of the 8th in the last ten years was in BC. The 8th is a mind-blowing enormous work that needs a huge city to put together. I don't really know Amy Beach's stuff. Which pieces are you hearing and what do you find good, hector? __________________ cya

12-05-2003, 10:18 PM	#252
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	oh, Amy Beach, yes. well she has a lot of piano stuff mostly. I just started listening to her stuff, so im no expert. btw, Mahler's 8th is a 'faust symphony'. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-06-2003, 10:12 PM	#254
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	'Faust' is a literarry work by Goethe. and mahler did a symphony on it. as did a lot of other composers. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-07-2003, 04:02 AM	#255
Elfhelm Marshal of the Eastmark Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,412	Goethe felt that only Mozart could have done justice to it, but he died too young. Beethoven expressed an interest in setting it. It was Mephistopheles who they liked. He had that anti-heroic appeal that was similar to Milton's Satan. I guess they thought it took a lot of nerve to wager with God himself. This romantic figure, if I may turn into Commander Data (RIP), recurs in Byron's Childe Harold who less malicious, and Shaw's Devil. Mephisto also inspired some piano pieces and possibly even inspired the diablo violin tuning. (Enough Mr. Data!) The ending of Goethe's Faust, as opposed to Marlowe's Doctor Faustus, is one of hope in salvation. And the second part of Mahler's 8th is a setting of that ending. So, it's the closest thing we have to a Mahler opera. __________________ cya

12-07-2003, 12:39 PM	#256
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	i noticed mahler never wrote an opera. and haydn? i've never heard of any of his operas except for 'the creation' which is more of an oratario.] and grieg never wrote an opera, to my knowledge. someone once said: "The Magic Flute is the only opera that i've heard that could have concievably been composed by God." __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-07-2003, 03:35 PM	#257
Ornelírë Mistë Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 482	Interesting quote. What about Le Nozze de Figaro? Ultimate forgiveness in that last act, like the Prodigal Son? Fabulous, I saw it a few years ago. I've finally listened to Mahler's 5th Symphony, recorded by the Berlin Philharmoniker, coincidentally. It's fabulous. I thought that with such extensive brass at the beginning that it wouldn't have string melodies as lovely as it has. It's very dynamic. It seems like Holywood tries to emulate in movie music, but they get it all wrong and sappy. I hate Holywood. And also- BRENT SPINER'S DEAD? Since when? __________________ "Lot of people say this city looks like Hell," Allie said. She took a long drag from her cigarette. The glowing tip burned a hole in the darkness. "Most people never been to Hell," Jacob said. She looked at him and he could hear the smile in her voice. "And I suppose you have?"

12-07-2003, 03:45 PM	#258
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	who is brent spiner? hey! georg solti is dead! he died in '96. now how come i wasthe last hear of it? __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-08-2003, 03:24 PM	#260
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	hey, thats ok alq. im sick with the flue. you probably have the flue too i presume? __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

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