Eowyn or Arwen?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Christiana
Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me.

That's the annoying part.

I wouldn't say she is weak of soul for being suicidal...see Mirahzi's post.

[Mirahzi]

On a similar note.. it would've been more cowardly if she [Eowyn] had stayed at home to await death.. rather than riding forth to meet it. Theoden also had a similar mindset.. and he was commended for his bravery.

[Christiana]

EG,whats w/ the new avatar?

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

It's pretty cute, no?
Nobody seemed to like the other one, and Earniel made this for me. Far better than Orlando Bloom, it is. But really, I'd prefer not to go off topic like this...if you have questions about changes to my avatar, my sig, or anything else, please PM me from now on, kay?

[Olegson]

Hello! I really think Eowyn's weak-souled.
The first time she falls in love (which I doubt) with a handsome, noble man - and she's rady to comite ( sorry for this word) a suicide just because he loves another wonan. But what's the point I wonder.
Moreover, I'd say, Faramir's much more attractive Fellow, isn't he???

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Olegson
Hello! I really think Eowyn's weak-souled.
The first time she falls in love (which I doubt) with a handsome, noble man - and she's rady to comite ( sorry for this word) a suicide just because he loves another wonan. But what's the point I wonder.
Moreover, I'd say, Faramir's much more attractive Fellow, isn't he???

I would have to disagree with this. First, when she 'falls in love' with Aragorn, I believe she does not so much love him as see him as a way out of her current situation. Where she is at that point, this slimey guy is trying to get her, she's stuck inside with her ageing uncle, whom she loves, but she obviously does not wish to stay there taking care of him constantly--what kind of life is that? So when Aragorn comes along, she sees him as a way out, not to mention pretty handsome to, eh? And wouldn't you want to be queen of Gondor? But besides that. . .her readiness to die is indeed suicidal, but it seems that just becuase she is a woman she is looked down on for this, unlike the many other characters in Tolkien's writing that go into battle ready to die. It seemed to her at that point that there was nothing left, and indeed this was almost true. Her 'love' had rejected her, and it definitely looked like the end of the world at that point. If your world is going to be taken over by an evil Dark Lord, and someone is telling you to sit at home and wait it out, would you listen to them? I certainly wouldn't! And also, it turned out to be best that she did go into battle, ready to die, because how would the Witch King have been killed then, eh?

And as for Faramir being better looking, well...I won't get into that, eh?

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Well, if you think Eowyn's weak-souled simply because she went off to die, I'd have to disagree. I think it would have been weak of her to HARBOR this wish and do nothing about it, besides let it stew and then still be stuck with it, and whatever petty task Eomer came back with for her to perform after the war. That wuld have shown that she didn't have the gall to take her life into her own hands; instead letting other people run her life for her. I admire anyone who takes their fate into their own hands, man or woman. And that is why I admire Eowyn.

I fully agree with Eruviel Greenleaf's post. Eowyn saw Aragorn more as a way out of her current situation (and he confirms this in the Houses of Healing) than as a love interest. I think of their *cough* 'relationship', as admiration (by Eowyn for Aragorn) rather than love, a chance to do greater things and be remembered for it on Eowyn's part. And her wish for death wasn't really that he loved another (after all, he only infers to her of Arwen), but that he was going to perform (what she thought was) a fatal task and waste his life. I think this drove her over the edge, rather than Arwen.

But with her hastiness in marriage to Faramir, there I'm leaning towards weak-souled. It seems like they were both despairing and thinking something along the lines of 'Well, we're just going to die anyway pretty soon, so why not?' I do not beleive that meaningful love can be acheived in a week (give or take).

And as for her death wish being weak-souled...I think it was more along the lines of desperation rather than suicide (although I won't deny that she obviously wanted to die). She took her fate into her own hands instead of waiting for a Higher Power to throw her a bone. That should be commended and recognized in both men and women. And so, I shall also honor:
MERRY!
For not just sticking around a stupid stronghold, simply because he was told to do so. He also plucked up his courage and determination, and found a way to acheive what he wanted.

But I digress...

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Stalker in the Starlight

But with her hastiness in marriage to Faramir, there I'm leaning towards weak-souled. It seems like they were both despairing and thinking something along the lines of 'Well, we're just going to die anyway pretty soon, so why not?' I do not beleive that meaningful love can be acheived in a week (give or take).

That I agree to also. Of course, their wedding did not take place for a while after, but still, that is definitely not enough time there. I would even venture to say that she did not truly love Faramir, either...*ducks rotten begetables being thrown at her* and perhaps this was another form of 'escape' that she saw in a man. But anyway. . .

[Olegson]

Well, you're right, but there are a lot of ways to solve such problems. I may be wrong, but if I were Eowyn I'd at first murder Grima. OK/ I really think it would help a lot. After that I'd take a steed and move to Minas Tirith. But before that I'd had made a track to some river so that others'd think I'd comeeted a suicide at last.
Sorry for the rudeness, but Eowyn needs 1 thing to be a perfect woman…………..- Brains!
As for Faramir – it's very simple – he's only 38 & Aragorn is 81…. Would you like a mummy to merry you? I'm sure not. & besides . Faramir is more fine person to deal with..

[Stalker in the Starlight]

Well, you're right, but there are a lot of ways to solve such problems. I may be wrong, but if I were Eowyn I'd at first murder Grima. OK/ I really think it would help a lot. After that I'd take a steed and move to Minas Tirith. But before that I'd had made a track to some river so that others'd think I'd comeeted a suicide at last.

Umm...a few tiny little problems with that plan:
1) At the time when Grima was at the height of his malice, he was also under Theoden's protection. If Eowyn had killed him, Theoden most likely would have locked her up or worse. Yes, I'm sure it really would have helped everyone a lot to have Grima dead, but let's not forget what Theoden, under Grima's influence, did to Eomer when Eomer threatened Grima with death in the halls of Edoras: Theoden had Eomer locked up. And let's face it: that's just not how the story goes, and its not in Eowyn's character to be a senseless killer (And let's not start with the Witch-king, b/c then we'll all have to get into a long boring discussion of whether or not the Nazgul were really alive...). She's not a heartless witch. She's just stern and resolute.
2) Eowyn wasn't after death alone. She wanted REKNOWN more than anything else. She wanted to be known and remembered POSITIVLEY for her actions, which is why she rode to battle, rather than right-out killing herself (Also, maybe she really didn't have the courage to take her own life...but we'll never know for sure).

Sorry for the rudeness, but Eowyn needs 1 thing to be a perfect woman…………..- Brains!

There are no perfect women, just like there are no perfect men. Eowyn was not perfect, and that's what makes her character great. If she was perfect, she'd be a Mary-Sue, and trust me: NO ONE wants that. It's Eowyn's imperfections (like her falling for Aragorn) that make her so much more memorable.

As for Faramir – it's very simple – he's only 38 & Aragorn is 81…. Would you like a mummy to merry you? I'm sure not. & besides . Faramir is more fine person to deal with..

Faramir offered Eowyn more than Aragorn could, besides being younger: he understood her on a higher level: he realized the feelings of bitterness she was harboring, what with not acheiving her goals and her future as another shadow in the court of her brother. He listened to her, he understood her better, he didn't give her the sympathy and pity that she didn't want. And he says so, in 'The Steward and the King':

...but when he gave you only understanding and pity, then you desired to have nothing, unless a brave death in battle....

Aragorn gave her only pity and understanding (besides being already taken). These things she did not want, above all else, for she was proud and hated pity (if we all remember our global history correctly, we know that the Rohirrim are parellel to the barbarian tribes of Europe in the Middle-Ages, who were also proud. Tolkien no doubt played on that). Faramir, while being able to offer her less in power, offered her more in stature. He felt empathy for her, but was able to analyze her situation and come to a conclusion as to her feelings. And, while I still hold with my previous claim that meaningful love cannot be acheived in a week, I beleive that its foundations can be laid out for the future. My only regret for Faramir and Eowyn is that Tolkien never elaborated upon their life in Ithilien after the War.
Drat.

[Christiana]

who thinks faramir is more pretty than aragorn?

[Jador]

It's the cross dressing that really turns me on to Eowyn...DOhhh! I shouldn't have said that,..

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by Jador
It's the cross dressing that really turns me on to Eowyn...DOhhh! I shouldn't have said that,..

LOL

Perhaps you should have said something like, "I admire her bravery in dressing as a man so as to march into battle," eh?

[Jador]

YEAH>>> What can I say I'm out of my mind,..I do dream about her more than Arwen tho'...

[Olegson]

o'coz I can't change what Tolkien's written & I don't want to, but see, Eowyn to Eomer made great difference for Teoden. He could be strict with'im but not with'er. And who asks to murder Grima just in front o'Teoden's eyes??? Who'd know ? For example, ask one of the riders to do it.
as fer perfect people, Stalker in the Starlight, you're completely right. but not in LOTR. Aragorn, for example,'s perfect. made no mistakes throughout all the book. Arwen, Elrond etc/
Aren't they perfect???????

who thinks faramir is more pretty than aragorn

I do! I don't know what's there with'is face, but I like hi more. Pure, he wasn't lucky with the lass to fall in love with. was'e

[cassiopeia]

Moreover, I'd say, Faramir's much more attractive Fellow, isn't he???

I don't think that Faramir is more attractive than Aragorn and NO I am not talking about the movie or looks. As for husband/ boyfriend material Aragorn is way more attractive. He is going to be king for starters. He is descended from a great line of Men. He is going to live longer than Faramir. He is good friends with Elrond, Gandalf etc. He is strong and courageous and brave.

As for Eowyn/Faramir, maybe their relationship was just a happy ending for Eowyn and Faramir. I'm not sure, but did Tolkien write that on the spur of the moment or something like that? It just seems a bit lazy to me. (Just a thought thats all, don't get angry )

[Christiana]

Its a good thought.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Originally posted by cassiopeia

As for Eowyn/Faramir, maybe their relationship was just a happy ending for Eowyn and Faramir. I'm not sure, but did Tolkien write that on the spur of the moment or something like that? It just seems a bit lazy to me. (Just a thought thats all, don't get angry )

Angry? I agree!!!

[Stalker in the Starlight]

My friend told me that when Tolkien originally wrote the books, Aragorn was supposed to end up with Eowyn, which is why Arwen has such a small part-she was added in at the last minute.
Though, this same friend also tells me that her 14 cats speak to her and tell her what to do, so I seriously doubt any and all things she ever says to me-including that.

[Olegson]

I don't think that Faramir is more attractive than Aragorn and NO I am not talking about the movie or looks. As for husband/ boyfriend material Aragorn is way more attractive. He is going to be king for starters. He is descended from a great line of Men. He is going to live longer than Faramir. He is good friends with Elrond, Gandalf etc. He is strong and courageous and brave.

As for Faramir's pedigree, he's very much aristocratic too. And, according to his behaviour, even more. Aragorn's welcomed everywhere, he hasn't any problems with his family, he takes anything done by the others.
And what about the lenght of life? Does this really metter? And also, I think it's the real nobleness to stay in shadow.
And remember what he'd done for Frodo and Sam! Wpnderful will!

Though, I really think you all disagree with me.
Before argoind, try to understand one.