02-17-2005, 07:22 PM | #241 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
If I ruled the world? I would probably abdicate but if forced to choose laws, I would base laws on my own beliefs of what is right and wrong, after a lot of thought and talking with other people. I imagine you would do the same thing. Even tho I think the Bible contains the truth of the state of the universe, and therefore how humans can maximize their joy and fulfillment, I would still not legislate exactly to what the Bible says. After all, that would include thoughts, and obviously discerning thoughts is rather difficult! I would just come up with the best compromise I could, with the goal of what is best for everyone, according to my best understanding. How 'bout you?
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-17-2005 at 07:23 PM. |
|
02-18-2005, 12:35 PM | #242 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
Quote:
Quote:
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what is considered sexual behavior, and what is considered a mental disorder. Then you wouldn't try to stretch your logic a tad too far. But barring mental disorders such as pedephilia, necrophilia, and other associated disorders that are indicitive of predatory personalities, no I don't have a problem with removing legislation covering sexual behavior between consenting adults. Not that it's directly germane to the topic of teen abstinence.So why don't I make it so: Why don't you just lobby for a law making it illegal for teens to bop each other? Then you can just toss the little harlots in jail for being immoral... oh and the bad boys too. We have statutory laws governing sexual behavior for teens already, vis a vis you are suddenly an adult at age 18/19 and can now be arrested for having sex with your 16/17 year old girlfriend... Why not just extend it to cover all teen sexual behavior? That would fix the problem right?
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-18-2005 at 12:37 PM. |
||
02-18-2005, 02:58 PM | #243 | |
the Shrike
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Francisco, CA <3
Posts: 10,647
|
Quote:
__________________
"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
|
02-18-2005, 03:44 PM | #244 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
|
Quote:
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
|
02-18-2005, 03:44 PM | #245 |
The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
|
I come from that sweet little area of the UK which boasts the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Europe. That's the problem: it boasts it - it's not seen as a problem.
The laws on teenage sex get ignored. They will always be ignored. But the government should still never condone it. And I'm a little shocked that you riddicule the idea of prosecuting 19 year olds for having sex with 15 year olds. Relationships do get abused by some men. The least you can ask for is the safeguard of laws to protect the vunerable. Sorry, cross post...
__________________
Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. Last edited by Janny : 02-18-2005 at 03:51 PM. |
02-18-2005, 03:57 PM | #246 | |
Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
|
Quote:
__________________
And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. Last edited by sun-star : 02-18-2005 at 05:16 PM. |
|
02-19-2005, 02:59 AM | #247 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
Quote:
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
|
02-19-2005, 11:30 AM | #248 | |||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Quote:
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
02-19-2005, 03:15 PM | #249 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
|
So you apparently have issue with these kind of consent laws? Whoa..I have nothing against consent laws. I'm surprised at this attitude...apparently since I support such laws I support required abstinence? What? No...
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
02-19-2005, 03:36 PM | #250 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
I don't have a problem with consent laws because they protect minors.
What Blackheart said about "legislating abstinence" implied legislating abstinence for everyone. That's how I took it anyway.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-19-2005, 04:00 PM | #251 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
|
It came off as a sarcastic jab to me.
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
02-19-2005, 04:28 PM | #252 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Sorry Starr, I didn't mean anyone to read that as sarcastic.
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-19-2005, 04:30 PM | #253 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
|
No, not you! Blackheart!
Oh, the joy of text based conversation.
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
02-19-2005, 08:55 PM | #254 | ||
Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
|
Oh yeah. Haha!
Erm... it's all good now. Yeah, text conversations...
__________________
"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
Quote:
|
||
02-20-2005, 03:26 PM | #255 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
No, I wasn't entirely sarcastic. If you really believe that it's better for teens to not be taught about birth control (because apparantly they will be unable to resist trying out a condom if they are mentioned), and that abstinence only education is the best way to teach teens about sex, then why not take it one step further and just legislate that you must be 18 (or whatever age of majority) to have sex?
After all it's for their own good...
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-20-2005 at 03:27 PM. |
02-20-2005, 04:52 PM | #256 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill
Posts: 2,389
|
Wow, way to jump to conclusions. I have never once said I support abstinence only education. Interesting that you get this from me supporting laws that protect minors from being taken advantage of by those who are considered adults by law (and I use the term "adult" loosely, since I am surrounded by legal adults at college that act like spoiled children).
I support sex education that puts an emphasis on abstinence being the only 100% effective way to prevent pregnancy and STDs (and by abstinence I mean abstinent from all sexual activities that involve bodily fluids other than saliva being exchanged). That doesn't mean I'm against teaching about birth control and protection. Far from it. I'm not so naive to think that people aren't going to have sex if they aren't educated about it....and if someone is going to engage in it, I'd rather they be informed.
__________________
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell |
02-21-2005, 03:57 AM | #257 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I'll have to remember that one! Quote:
You seem to imply that "minding other people's sexual behavior" is wrong, and that you don't do this. Unless you want to repeal ALL laws against sexual behavior, then this just isn't true - you DO mind other people's sexual behavior. Really, if each person defines their own morality (which is what your worldview is, I imagine, because I think you're an atheist), you can't call someone's actions "wrong", anyway - or at least with any authority or sense. Maybe you can call it "a minority opinion", but you can't call it "wrong" - they're a person just like you; who's to say who is right? Perhaps they're just more enlightened than you are, and in 100 years, you'll find out you were wrong (if you're still alive). Let's be consistent here. There are lots of sexual behaviors. Some we both agree are fine, some we both agree are NOT fine, and some we disagree on. Neither one of us can prove we are right. Both of us think "minding other people's sexual behavior" IS right sometimes, esp. if that sexual behavior harms someone else.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-21-2005 at 06:35 AM. |
||
02-21-2005, 06:45 AM | #258 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I don't remember if I mentioned this before, but a friend of mine (a young lady in her mid-20s) is getting married in 2 months. Both she and her fiance are virgins - yay for them!! It's hard to remain a virgin until you're married - but well worth it. It was so great to see the two of them and how excited they were that they had saved the full expression of their sexuality for each other, and NO ONE ELSE had taken a part of it away. The plans for their honeymoon (my advice - don't go rustic here - plenty of time for that later! Go for comfort and privacy and good bathrooms!), the loving consideration they had for each other, the excitement and anticipation - all so wonderful and beautiful to see. Such fun! I need to get myself over to Victoria's Secret for a present for her (and indirectly for him )
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-21-2005, 01:50 PM | #259 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
Quote:
Quote:
But I'm still curious why you think it has anything to do with statutory laws. I only noted the existence of statutory laws to show the legal precedent for laws regulating sexual behavior for minors. Not because the two points are in any other way related.
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
||
02-21-2005, 02:23 PM | #260 | ||||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
|
Quote:
Somehow I doubt that. But no, I wasn't at all refering to "acceptable" sexual behavior. I was refering to paraphelias that involve a victim. Predatory behaviors, I think I mentioned. Quote:
Furthermore you are engaging in obfuscatory behavior. You know damned well what I mean by predatory behavior. Quote:
That is not the same as saying that everyone can decide what their own morality means. You may also note for your records that I am not an athiest, however I do maintain that western religion is completely back asswards and wrong in their worldview regarding man's relationship to the divine. The idea that humans can live together in a society with each man as an island is one of the common misconceptions people have about relativism. Did you really fall prey to that misconception or are you being obfuscatory again? Quote:
I suppose it's one of the cultural shortcomings we have. Anything that involves sex is taboo, so it must be what makes those behaviors bad. So it must be the most serious part, and therefore the defining characteristic. I can only ask what the real difference is between a sociopath who tortures his victim by mutilation before death, and one who tortures his victim by sexual humiliation? Do you really think that the sex is anything other than a tool? Which is worse... They're both pretty horrible, I can't really say which one is sicker. But I can say that sex really doesn't have all that much to do with that kind of predatory behavior. Not as normal people define sex. And in those kinds of cases it's pretty simple to tell normal from abnormal. You're also avoiding the question by throwing up all this smoke about relativism. Since YOU anyway, believe in minding other people's sexual behavior than answer the question. Why not legislate teen sexual behavior to enforce abstinence?
__________________
I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... Last edited by Blackheart : 02-21-2005 at 02:24 PM. |
||||
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AIDS: Approaches and Funding | Janny | General Messages | 206 | 12-01-2006 06:35 PM |