07-30-2002, 07:36 AM | #241 | ||
Hoplite Nomad
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Sam you implied that religion was the birth of hospitals. NO ONE here said that religion had NOTHING to do with it. But that it was not the SOLE PRIMER MOVER Didn't you read elvellon wrote?:
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secondly you are all over the place with your arguments bringing in side stuff with nothing do with your goal. be succint and on target it makes your position far more clear. like this Quote:
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 07-30-2002 at 07:45 AM. |
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07-30-2002, 08:55 AM | #242 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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07-30-2002, 10:05 AM | #243 |
The Original Corruptor
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Yeah, that's secret Christian code for :
xxxxxxx xxxxx xxxxxxx xx xxxxx xxxxx xxx |
07-30-2002, 10:42 AM | #244 |
Elf Lord
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Jeez. If you people had actually read the Gospel, you'd know that christians are relativists.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
07-30-2002, 01:52 PM | #245 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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07-30-2002, 02:40 PM | #246 |
Elf Lord
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Primarily, Christians are concerned with Sin.
Not Evil. Not Good. Sin is apparantly defined as that which seperates someone from god. Which is one of the reasons early christianity was concerned with things like "purity of heart". Actions were not at all what condemned a person, it was what was in their heart, their motive etc. One of the entire elements of the movement was that the law was dead, and thet the Old Testement was inapplicable. Particularly because it dealt with actions, like being circumcised, or sacrifices, or eating with a particular hand etc. Well that's the crux of the matter right there. Suddenly actions are no longer absolute. They are relative to the intentions of the actor.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
07-30-2002, 03:44 PM | #247 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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07-31-2002, 10:46 AM | #248 | |
Elf Lord
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Look at Percival, for example. He almost succumbed to the temptation of "raping" a woman to save her life, however it turned out she was a demoness, and therefore it was uneccesary, because she wasn't actually "alive". So yes, even in that case, relative intent applies. I'll admit, it's awfully difficult to find a situation where you would have to rape a woman to save her life, but apparantly there is a loophole for just such an occasion.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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07-31-2002, 12:59 PM | #249 |
The Insufferable
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Blackheart, you are correct, in a sense.
But christianity also maintains that God is the only good, and so good is that which seeks to serve him, and bad is what rebels against him. Purity of heart... Actually, christians are concerned with repentance and salvation. That is, that someone has realized that they are a sinner (which, as Xandre pointed out, means seperation from god) and incapable fo improving themself, and asked god to save them. As long as they are sincere, purity of heart has little to do with it. The person who repents ont hier deathbed because of an overwhelming fear of hell, the person who does so as a child because it pleases thier parents, the middle aged person who does so because life sucks, and the one who wishes to simply know his creator, are all equally saved. yes... there's a catch. Since all are equally saved, they've all made themself open to god's changing them. As I said earlier, imperfect human goodness cannot bring you into the presense of god, but the presence of god works continually to perfect that goodness and weed out the badness. And so we expect (rightly) a positive shift in a christian's life, and are worried when there isn't. Chirsianity is set apart from popular religion in that religion (even when claiming to be a variant of christianity) depends on merely human efforts, while christianity depends on god's work upon man.
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07-31-2002, 05:19 PM | #250 |
Radically Tolkienited
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Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+><
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Ok Afro I'll try and do that. But I could apply the same for you. Cut the dross and get to the core. Or in other words talk plainer. I dont understand what you meant by "Dont straw Man us" or whatever that was. I dont get stuff like that very easily. I have a very confusing mind and it is easily confused.
Dang it all I'm sounding like Dogberry from Much ado about nothing. You know what. I think I'm gonna quit this. Been nice hobnobbing with you all, Sam
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Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA... |
07-31-2002, 07:14 PM | #251 |
The Rogue Elf
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Nothing is absolute. That is the only absolute.
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07-31-2002, 11:58 PM | #252 | ||
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There is a difference between extreanous and not sequitor things and not knowing jargon. or to put it simply there is a difference between adding things to an argument that have nothing to do with your point and lacking certain vocabulary Quote:
sorry to see you leave
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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08-01-2002, 06:46 AM | #253 | ||
The Original Corruptor
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I don't think you understand how much I needed that. Last edited by Andúril : 08-01-2002 at 06:49 AM. |
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08-01-2002, 02:23 PM | #254 |
Long lost mooter
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Okay then, what's YOUR explanation -- not just invalidating my statement, but giving your explanation for higher thinking, etc., as I brought up in my post? (I'm not being argumentative, I really am interested to know what you think).
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08-01-2002, 06:18 PM | #255 | |
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
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08-01-2002, 09:18 PM | #256 | |
The Rogue Elf
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Quick question. What do the Christians think about this: http://godlessamericans.org |
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08-01-2002, 11:18 PM | #257 | ||
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That comment has probably been said before (millenia probably). But I'm not sure. But remember that, if we are to believe the theory of evolution, we've only been humans for a very short period compared to other species. Looks like most of the knowledge goes into paper, cdroms, hard disks, and other forms of archives. Oh no! What do you mean by intelligence? Collective? Individual? Quote:
I think they should if they want to. I think your country allows for such freedoms. Hopefully, it'll be an eye-opener to both the non-theists and also to the theists.
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lúmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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08-02-2002, 12:34 AM | #258 |
The Rogue Elf
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The only species that even thinks about death is humans - the only ones with the capacity to. And what do we do? Fear it. Don't tell me you don't. Everyone has some part of their being that fears it. Why? Because we don't know what happens after death - none of us has ever died and lived to tell about it. Will we be greeted with pearly gates? A fiery archway? Perhaps, blackness and nevermore? We can't prove anything - and so we fear it.
I, on the otherhand, don't fear what it is to come after death. I don't see why I should. Human beings are worse than the rest of the living species - the smarter in technology we get and the more God-like power that is put into our fingertips - the more violent we become. Why do you think we always perceive intelligent extraterrestrials as hostile? Because we see a reflection of ourselves (we are, after all, the only thing we know) and their advanced civilization, which occured from the abuse of intricate knowledge and power-hungry beings. Speaking of god-like power: God's wrath in the Bible, anyone? I sure wouldn't want to be around that. The only reason he's so violent is because we crafted him out of our own image to begin with. Go figure. So exactly how are we worthy of Pearly Gates and Paradise on the other side? God gives weak people comfort. The idea that someone is always watching over them because they don't have the self-power to look after themselves. Because of our evil, we grab for something glittering thing and cling to it, hoping that it will fix everything wrong with the world - hence, we don't fix things ourself, and it all goes downhill. I believe that there are other more individually intelligent beings out there somewhere, who live without laws, without hate, without love, in a community that realizes it's up to them to keep peace. Peace and perfection isn't pleasure and heaven - its devoid of all things and is flawless - seeing as how love is a flaw since it leads to hate (someone trying to steal your loved one would piss you off, eh?) then there would be no love. Tragic to you. Everlasting peace for them. Everyone wants to go to Heaven, but no one wants to die. Can you honestly tell me you want to? Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 08-02-2002 at 12:37 AM. |
08-02-2002, 12:39 AM | #259 |
Domesticated Swing Babe
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How do you know humans are the only species that thinks about death? I can't believe that! I don't fear death cause I don't know what happens.....nothing happens, you're dead, gone, soon to be forgotton (three generations). I fear it cause I won't be here to do my work. Will someone else do the things I do to help others? God is just an explanation for things people don't understand, Life is rough, comfort is good!
Last edited by Lizra : 08-02-2002 at 12:44 AM. |
08-02-2002, 12:45 AM | #260 |
The Rogue Elf
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Humans are the only species on this planet that do. We're the only ones with the mental capacity for it, as I've mentioned earlier. Let's say a cat runs across a four-lane road with cars coming straight at him - sure, he's in fear - he doesn't know what the heck those things are speeding for him. But does he think, "Oh no, it might kill me!" No, he doesn't.
And I wasn't speaking of everyone everyone. It's in general terms. Most people do fear death. I didn't say God's only purpose was giving weak people comfort; another one would be giving gullible people an explanation for everything they don't understand. One of the downsides for being as deep-thinking as we are. Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 08-02-2002 at 12:51 AM. |
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