Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

[Khamûl]

King of the Istari, I believe I can see your point. Harry sees the ring when he and Dumbledore meet Slughorn for the first time. He also sees it at another point in Dumbledore's office (I can't put my finger on it at the moment). Later, this is what Dumbledore says:

"You are forgetting... you have already destroyed one [Horcrux] of them. And I have destroyed another."
"You have?" said Harry eagerly.
"Yes indeed," said Dumbledore, and he raised his blackened, burned-looking hand. "The ring, Harry. Marvolo's ring. And a terrible curse there was upon it too. Had it not been -- forgive me the lack of seemly modesty -- for my own prodigious skill, and for Professor Snape's timely action when I returned to Hogwarts, desperately injured, I might not have lived to tell the tale. However, a withered hand does not seem an unreasonable exchange for a seventh of Voldemort's soul. The ring is no longer a Horcrux."

I interpreted this as Dumbledore's hand was withered when he went and took the ring from Marvolo's house because it was concealed and protected by many powerful spells. Then once he had it, it wasn't a problem destroying the Horcrux. (We see later in the cave that it is quite an ordeal to even put your hands on a Horcrux that Voldemort has protected.) However, it does seem to be open to other interpretations, such as his hand was withered destroying the Horcrux, but the ring was still around afterwards, so it is possible to remove the soul without annihilating the vessel. I'm not sure if I agree with that, but I suppose it is a possibility.

[HOBBIT]

R.A.B = Regulus Black.

The locket was the horcrux - but R.A.B (most likely Regulus Black) had already taken it and replaced it with the fake with the note.

In book 5 didn't Harry find a locket at 12 Grimmauld Place? Could be it.

[King of The Istari]

There must be ways of destroying a horcrux without destroying the vessel it is carried in, for example the diary, it was pierced by the basalisk fang (I don't think the fang went all the way through) but was still there it just had a Blackened Burned hole in the cover (remind you of anything?) and ws covered in ink, So this makes me belive that when a horcrux is removed from its vessel it burns what ever it touches, like the diary, and if dumbledore was wearing the ring when the horcrux was destroyed his hand! So Maybe a horcrux can be removed safely but is only dangerous when it comes into contact with something, Imagine touching something that was pure evil it would do something wouldn't it?

[HOBBIT]

Let's puts to rest the whole "snape was working with Dumbledore" "Dumbledore told Snape to kill him" "Dumbledore isn't really dead" "Snape is really good not evil"

1. Ok he made an UNBREAKABLE VOW to help Draco carry out his mission to KILL DUMBLEDORE - not pretend to.

2. No one knew where Dumbloedore went or why except for Harry! Sure, Dumbledore "trusted" Snape at the time - but he certainly trusted all of his other teachers and did not tell them, hence McGonnagall asking Harry.

3. Snape had to be woken up by Flitwick - he had no idea otherwise that a Death Eater attack was going on or that Dubmledore and Harry had left and were returning.
Neither Malfoy nor Dumbledore told him.

4. No evidence that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him. All he said was "Severus..." But he is obviously now dead, and was previously talking Malfoy out of killing him. He was shocked at the betrayal.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

1. Ok he made an UNBREAKABLE VOW to help Draco carry out his mission to KILL DUMBLEDORE - not pretend to.

I agree; I think Dumbledore is definitely really dead.

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

2. No one knew where Dumbloedore went or why except for Harry! Sure, Dumbledore "trusted" Snape at the time - but he certainly trusted all of his other teachers and did not tell them, hence McGonnagall asking Harry.

If Snape was on a special mission for Dumbledore, he might have been given instructions that Dumbledore didn't give the other teachers. I don't really understand what your point is here, though.

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

3. Snape had to be woken up by Flitwick - he had no idea otherwise that a Death Eater attack was going on or that Dubmledore and Harry had left and were returning.
Neither Malfoy nor Dumbledore told him.

I'm not following your train of thought. What does this mean?

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

4. No evidence that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him.

Hagrid did see Dumbledore and Severus having an argument earlier on in the book. It might have been something about that, although it's true that Snape had already made his Unbreakable Vow at that time. Maybe Snape was asking to give his life for Dumbledore?

Originally Posted by HOBBIT

All he said was "Severus..." But he is obviously now dead, and was previously talking Malfoy out of killing him. He was shocked at the betrayal.

I don't think he was shocked at all. But maybe that's just me .

You need to note that J.K. Rowling has definitely still left some important things concerning Dumbledore's murder under wraps. She hasn't explained why Dumbledore gave Snape the Dark Arts job. She hasn't explained what that argument between Dumbledore and Snape was about. Most important of all, she hasn't explained why Dumbledore trusted Snape in the first place.

If book 6 was the one where she was planning to reveal the evil of Severus Snape, J.K. Rowling would have tied up the loose ends explaining his treachery, rather than leaving them all dangling into book 7.

I am quite sure that Snape is good .

[BeardofPants]

Elfmaster, I think you're right about Harry being one of the horcruxes. I speculated as much over at SF-Fandom. It's an interesting postulation - would JKR be that mean?

[Khamûl]

Originally Posted by King of The Istari

There must be ways of destroying a horcrux without destroying the vessel it is carried in, for example the diary, it was pierced by the basalisk fang (I don't think the fang went all the way through) but was still there it just had a Blackened Burned hole in the cover (remind you of anything?) and ws covered in ink, So this makes me belive that when a horcrux is removed from its vessel it burns what ever it touches, like the diary, and if dumbledore was wearing the ring when the horcrux was destroyed his hand! So Maybe a horcrux can be removed safely but is only dangerous when it comes into contact with something, Imagine touching something that was pure evil it would do something wouldn't it?

But wasn't Dumbledore's withered hand his wand hand? I don't think he would have been wearing the ring on that hand and using his other to use his wand. (I'll have to check that out.) I also thought about the other known destroyed Horcrux (the diary). While it's true that Voldemort's soul was destroyed by the basilisk fang, I believe a fair amount of damage was done to the physical diary as well. Perhaps the soul was destroyed because its vessel was made uninhabitable. Which makes me think that even though Harry wouldn't have to be completely obliterated to do away with Voldemort's soul, Harry's body wouldn't be in an inhabitable condition by his own soul.

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

Elfmaster, I think you're right about Harry being one of the horcruxes. I speculated as much over at SF-Fandom. It's an interesting postulation - would JKR be that mean?

I'm not sure...but you know, she killed Sirius and he was her favourite. So it's possible.

I also thought about the other known destroyed Horcrux (the diary). While it's true that Voldemort's soul was destroyed by the basilisk fang, I believe a fair amount of damage was done to the physical diary as well.

Remember though the fang of a basilisk is magical, as the creature is greatly so. And the poison is probably what helped destroy the horcrux.

[Lief Erikson]

Harry's too young to die.

[azalea]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

But is it just me or did the plot seem a little disjointed, even rushed in some places?

This book differs somewhat in that there is not as much action for Harry (aside from some "action" with Ginny ). The main plotlines for him surround Draco's and Tom Riddle's actions, not his own, so we don't have as much direct action for him until we get to the horcruxes. I think this lack of a strong and definate Harry plot throughout the book is what might cause that feeling.
For me, the books are no longer about the books themselves, but about the story as a whole, and I think that's why this one seems different. This book is almost like a chapter in the bigger story, to conclude with the next and final "chapter." It's kind of like LotR in that way now, IMO.

(another post coming)

[Spock]

...I agree, 95%

[azalea]

Here are some more of my thoughts about Snape/ Dumbledore:

Why would Dumbledore be pleading with Snape, then? Snape had just walked out the door and looked at him. If Dumbledore trusted him so much, then why would he automatically think that he was about to betray him? It doesn't make sense. Why did Snape stun Flitwick? Was it to keep him, Hermione and Luna safe by keeping them out of the way of the battle? If not, and he's so evil, why didn't he just kill them all? Why did Dumbledore finally allow Snape to have the DADA post? We know that D'dore knew the position was "cursed" in that no one had held it for more than a year. So he must have known that Snape could only hold it for that year. This leads me to believe that Snape was lying to Bellatrix when he said what everyone seemed to think: that D'dore didn't want him to be close to the Dark Arts because he might slip back into his old ways. He trusted him, and I don't think Dumbledore's trust was without a strong reason (ie, there is more to the story than we or any character have been told). Dumbledore also wouldn't have offered trust with limits. I think the real reason is that if he were to give him the position, he knew that it would have been Snape's last year, and he wanted to keep him at Hogwarts. But this year, there was a reason DD knew it would be Snape's final year, and so he was able to let him have the position. I think the reason DD knew is because the events at the end of this year were forseen as a possibility (not exactly, as in a vision, but as a conclusion reached with the information DD had available to him). I think that Snape had told DD that Voldemort had ordered Draco to kill him, and that Dumbledore knew Snape would likely need to do it in order to save Draco's life. It seemed obvious to Snape, Narcissa and Bellatrix that Draco would not be able to do it. It doesn't seem that Snape told DD about the Vow, but wouldn't have been necessary if DD had already asked that he do the job if it came down to it.

[durinsbane2244]

i still would like to believe they switched places, in rereading it i found that it said:
(not exact)

he leapt into the water with the STRENGTH AND AGILITY OF A MAN YOUNGER THAN HIM.
though i know it says it a lot, thats mostly just with quickness, not actual physical activity.

also, i just had a thought that i know isnt true, i say again before you all jump at my throat, I KNOW THIS ISNT TRUE! what if dumbledore is weaker than voldemort and the only reason it says that hes the only wizard V ever feared was because DD scared him into submission as a child, and V didnt kill im so he could make everyone think he was weaker than he really was, a useful technique, for he could than bring out his true power when the time was right. again, i know this isnt true.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally Posted by azalea

I agree with a large amount of your post, and I too believe that Snape is still good. I just want to comment on this bit, though. Snape could have stunned Flitwick rather than killed him because he thought there was still a chance Malfoy's scheme wouldn't work. If Malfoy's scheme collapsed, Snape wouldn't have wanted his loyalties exposed.

[Falagar]

Well, I'm not quite sure I agree there.Though there may still be a chance the scheme wouldn't work, Snape didn't seem to care much. The first thing he did after having left Flitwick, Hermione and Luna was to blow his cover, running away with the DE's. And either way, stunning Flitwick would put him in a bad spot if it failed, and with Dumbeldore gone there wouldn't be many left to protect him (if they failed to kill Dumbeldore, then his chances would increase, but he'd have attracted too much attention.

[Lief Erikson]

Good points. Apparently I didn't think that through sufficiently.

[inked]

Well, Falagar, the real issue is, as usual, who is blowing whom. To assure the cover with Voldemort, Snape was constrained to act as he did. This leads to his apparent defection from the Order until you get to the scene with Harry where he INSTRUCTS him in needed improvenments in Harry's skill. Harry will eventually understand the implication of this. Snape is a good guy under all that machination! The life of a double agent is a misery. The greatest clue is Snape's response to Harry's allegation of cowardice. Snape is certainly no coward whatever else he may be. To kill Dumbledore at D's request is not the act of a coward. Nor was the embrasure of the Unbreakable Vow in pursuit of his status among the DE's. Snape is literally walking the wire over the chasm. Not a coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Finrod Felagund]

[QUOTE=sun-star]

He was at the funeral, but not mentioned by name - on page 598 of the UK edition, among a long list of names it says there were "some people whom Harry knew merely by sight, such as the barman of the Hog's Head". It's just a brief reference because Harry still doesn't know he's Dumbledore's brother and therefore thinks he's not important.

I disagree...Remember in OotP, Moody showed Harry the picture of the original order...Dubledore's brother was in that picture...and if I'm not wrong...he does resemble his brother somewhat.

[Falagar]

Originally Posted by inked

Well, Falagar, the real issue is, as usual, who is blowing whom. To assure the cover with Voldemort, Snape was constrained to act as he did. This leads to his apparent defection from the Order until you get to the scene with Harry where he INSTRUCTS him in needed improvenments in Harry's skill. Harry will eventually understand the implication of this. Snape is a good guy under all that machination! The life of a double agent is a misery. The greatest clue is Snape's response to Harry's allegation of cowardice. Snape is certainly no coward whatever else he may be. To kill Dumbledore at D's request is not the act of a coward. Nor was the embrasure of the Unbreakable Vow in pursuit of his status among the DE's. Snape is literally walking the wire over the chasm. Not a coward!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My point exactly. Snape had to act as he did not to blow his cover for Voldemort, but didn't do anything more than what was required because he's not really on Voldie's side.

[King of The Istari]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Harry's too young to die.

finally some one who belives as I believe Harry shouldn't die

like I said earlier it shows more writing skill if JK can pull of a satisfactroy ending whith Harry living, than taking the easy way out and killing him off