Abortion II

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I can see both sides on that - it's similar to the controversy here in the US a while back that Walgreen's pharmacists don't have to dispense contraceptives to patients if they have moral objections.

And although I can see both sides, mostly I disagree with this, and here's why. It is not the place of the doctor (or pharmacist) to make moral judgments for the patient. If something is legal, and a patient goes to a doctor/pharmacist requesting a legal procedure, then they have the right to receive that service.

Wait… perhaps Im missing something but why in the world would you go to a doctor not for an abortion unless you know they are in that line of business? Does anyone really just randomly target any doctor in the phone book and demand an abortion? Wouldn’t you want a specialist in that considering the danger of the procedure? I mean I wouldn’t insist angrily that my proctologist do triple bypass on me… And why in the world would someone call themselves an abortion doctor if they have a moral objection to abortion? This seems to me much ado about nothing. If you want an abortion find a womans clinic or abortion specialist you know performs that kind of service. Or is it because its been “illegal” that no one is in the book for that?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Although not questioning that abortion might lead to lower birth rates, it's not entirely equal to depriving a society of a future member. After an abortion a woman can still deliver a baby at a later time.

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

So you're going to encourage all those priests, monks and nuns to start having children?

You know what else deprives society of a future member? Banning in-vitro fertilisation.

The answer to both your posts is the same: There is a distinction to be made between not providing a member, and actually doing away with an already existing being which is a potential member of society. Anyway, what about the rest of my point?

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

There is a distinction to be made between not providing a member, and actually doing away with an already existing being which is a potential member of society.

And this gets back to whether said "existing being" is a 'potential member of society".

Theoretically, anyone born within a small swim of Texas is "a potential member of my society". When does my legal responsibility to house and feed them begin?

[Curufin]

And wrong in such a way that it affects society? I see abortion as having a much larger effect on society, by depriving it of a future member, then an aging hippie lighting up a joint in Haight-Ashbury. This is especially true given the alarmingly low birth rates in the Western world (particularly in Europe).

Er, low birth rates are a good thing, while we're consuming resources at such a terrible speed. And birth rates are not low in Africa, Latin America and Asia, so I don't think we have to worry about going extinct any time soon - unless your point is somehow that a Western birth is somehow more important/more use to society than a non-Western birth?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

You'd think not. Yet the common belief among many anti-choice activists seems to be "let the punishment fit the crime"...gets very Old Testament, very fast.

Be that as it may, no doctor who has taken the oath of Hippocrates can ascribe to that vision, surely? It'd be the very thing they tried to avoid by refusing to do any abortions.

I realise I misspelt the good man's name in my previous post, will edit.

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

Rape or no rape, love or no love...the cell becomes a human. it is ALIVE. all life if precious, no matter the state it is in. I wonder...do you all know that where I live women are aloud to have abortions when their child is 8 months?!!? CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS IS GOING ON? Even a five month old baby has a chance at life. Abortion is morally wrong and is murder. It also affects the women. Women go into depression and guilt for YEARS. Help save a life and please help stop the Massacre of Abortion.

[Curufin]

Rape or no rape, love or no love...the cell becomes a human. it is ALIVE. all life if precious, no matter the state it is in. I wonder...do you all know that where I live women are aloud to have abortions when their child is 8 months?!!? CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS IS GOING ON? Even a five month old baby has a chance at life. Abortion is morally wrong and is murder. It also affects the women. Women go into depression and guilt for YEARS. Help save a life and please help stop the Massacre of Abortion

*sigh*

EAR, I'm going to try to be nice here, as I think you're obviously pretty young.

Posts like this aren't really appropriate in debate threads. You're coming across more like a crusader than a debater, and using the words and caps, etc. is going to make people angry.

People don't necessarily agree with you, and have good reasons for not agreeing with you.

Having passion is a good thing, but please try to tone it down a bit before you start a flame war?

*bites tongue before she says more*

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

can i not give my opinion? maybe it is a subject worth debating. why start a thread without thinking people with have strong feelings. It would be extremely wrong of me NOT to express an opinion on something that IS NOT RIGHT.

....plus I've had one of my own, and its something I want all girls to avoid...

[Curufin]

It is not right to you.

And I never said you couldn't express your opinion.

Just knock off the caps and the exclamation points, and try to be reasonable about it!

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

What is your opinion on this?

[Curufin]

If you'd read any of this thread at all, you would know my opinion on abortion.

I am proud to say that I am 100% pro-choice.

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

Reasons? What do you think about the children being aborted 8 months?
Would you kill an 8 month out of the womb too?

[Curufin]

Reasons? Let me state them before you do, make it easier on you, okay? I'm a horrible heathen baby killer and I'm going straight to hell.

Really - would you even listen if I gave my true reasons?

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

I would really. Remember, I've had an abortion. She was 4 months.

[Curufin]

And I'm sorry - because abortion is a tragedy. I don't think anyone on either side of the debate would argue that it isn't. I hope you got the support you needed and are coping alright.

I'm pro-choice because I don't think it's the place of the government to intrude on such a personal and private matter. The government should not be telling people when to have babies, or when not to have babies.

The perfect solution would, of course, be a sex-education program that makes abortion a moot point - a program that teaches children both the dangers of sex as well as the best ways at preventing pregnancy if they choose to be sexually active. Not abstinence only - but a comprehensive sex-ed program that covers all ends.

But as long as the GOP refuses to do this, their stand against both abortion and birth control is unconscionable. You can't have one or the other. You can't tell kids that they can't have abortions, but not teach them how to prevent pregnancy. It's unfair in a myriad of ways.

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

Yes, idealy a law against abortions would be perfect i believe. But i am also realistic. Its never going to happen. Right now we need to build societies that teach to wait for love and provide organizations that will help with women that have guilt after their abortion.
My only way of getting through the abortion was having help. I went through a serious depression and STILL have dream of my child. Life iwth out her is hard, and I know its my fault.
It is VERY IMPORTANT---sry i know its caps-----to have set ups like these

[Empress_Flynn]

This might be an impertinent question, EAR, but if you're so against abortions why did you have one in the first place? Or are you against them now because you had one?

Just trying to clarify... but feel free not to answer if anything's too personal

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

I want to share EVERYTHING.
My bf and i were 'close' and he 'love me'. We were together when I was a sophomore (last yr) and I was pregnant in september. when i found out i told him. He left me and I didnt want my parents to know about the child. I got a free abortion (the advertisement said free abortions untill christmas..sick eh?). I lost it after that. Im now a junior and am still healing, but am much better.

[Empress_Flynn]

And so now you are against them because of your own personal experience with having one?

[ElizabethAnnRoger]

yes. my child is dead. i murder her. and my metal anguish after was unbearable