01-16-2004, 01:58 PM | #241 | |
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Firstly, it made it seem as though the beacons stretched only to Rohan, as opposed to a tool to summon all of the surrounding people who lived outside the city (anybody else wonder where those people were? Like farmers? what were they eating in there?) Secondly, real historical beacons used fire as a way of creating large plumes of smoke. Smoke is more easily visible than just fire. (One of the most famous sets of beacons were employed by the Chinese along the Great Wall. In a recent recreation it was learned that warning messages could be sent hundreds and hundreds of miles down the wall, in a matter of hours, and seeing a panoramic distance shot of the smoke plumes in the documentary looked better than the mountain top beacons to my eyes anyway, the plumes looked magnificent) Hollywood does this “beacon” thing all the time and it keeps getting worse and worse. Common sense takes a backseat to the visual eye candy. It was one thing when someone broke a chair over someone’s back in a saloon brawl and the chair just shattered and the fight continued, but a flaming Denethor running 200 yards completely engulfed in flames? A beacon station alone above the cloud line? It looked like the top of Everest for God's sake. Last edited by squinteyedsoutherner : 01-16-2004 at 02:07 PM. |
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01-16-2004, 06:36 PM | #242 | |||
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01-16-2004, 08:57 PM | #243 |
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Overall, I thought it was excellent, though the theatrical cut let me down ever so slightly. But this is only because of all the gushing reviews that said it was absolutely perfect. I read them for about a week before viewing the movie.
It still feels a little rushed - especially the transition from the siege of Minas Tirith to when they leave for the show down at the Black Gates. I personally felt like they needed a lot more time with the characters in between those two things. I didn't feel nearly as close to Aragorn because he had so little meaningful dialogue as I was used to. Some random thoughts: The Witch-king was awesome. When he rose up from Minas Morgul on the Nazgul, it was one of the few times in the entire trilogy that I felt some semblance of the fear that they are supposed to convey. I cannot believe the showdown with Gandalf was cut. Gandalf was great, but I kept getting the feeling that he should have been more powerful - I mean, he defeated a Balrog when he was in a weaker form, yet he has his hands full with a squadron of orcs? The Legolas stunt was the one of the only scenes in the movie that I really dislike. The other is Denethor running on fire. That seems to be the general consensus here, so no surprise there. Shelob met my expectations. The CGI was seamless. I wanted to see Barad-dur tremble on its foundations at the point when Frodo willfully set the ring to his finger and truly claimed it as his own - just like in the book. The elephant man orc was ridiculous The changes to the dynamic of Sam, Frodo and Gollum did not bother me too much. The supposed multiple endings that the critics are griping about is fine. I saw absolutely no problems with it. People need to learn a little patience. I think they are used to the typical Hollywood crap where everything is happy, and you rush right out of the theater after the payoff. Can't wait for the extended cut. Most of the problems will surely be fixed.
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01-16-2004, 09:16 PM | #244 | ||||||||||||
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The only details I didn't like in that scene was 1) The absence of Sam showing Gollum mercy after they fight, and Sam could have killed him 2) Gollum jumping on Frodo (in Sammath Naur) instead of struggling with him normally. I just pictured them both standing and grappling, Frodo being invisible of course. (That's not a biggie.) 3) Frodo stupid falling off the stupid cliff and people thinking he's dead. Quote:
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01-17-2004, 04:28 AM | #245 |
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I had the same thoughts about the beacons as well. When I first saw the movie, all I could think about was the poor people who had to stay up there and light the beacons.
I also thought the scene at Mount Doom, where Gollum is fighting an invisible Frodo, was comical. It ruined such an important moment for me.
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01-17-2004, 04:50 AM | #246 | |
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01-17-2004, 05:17 AM | #247 | ||
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Yes. I think I said that somewhere too, and I'm not just copying you JD.
If they needed the extended edition's scenes to fix something, then that scene should be in the theatrical versions that everyone gets to see. If they end up being too long, either delete Arwen and Elrond's pointless, non-plot advancing, and boring extra scenes, or put a bathroom break in the middle. I'm not ranting at you here Flame_of_Udun, I don't blame you all for wanting the extended edition to be better. Edit: or thinking that it might be. The reason I'm ranting about extra scenes, and this is a kicker, is because Jackson did not film the scouring of the Shire! After all the extra junk he added, he (apparently) made two awful claims: that there wasn't enough time (addressed above), and that he didn't like that part of the book. To the latter I say, if you don't like all of the book you're adapting, then write your own darned plot.
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01-17-2004, 05:38 AM | #248 | |
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It's too bad the movie couldn't all fit into the theatrical version, but it's rushed enough as is-- so that leaves us needing the EE, to expand on important parts that weren't included. Don't shoot me, but it seems to me the Scouring of the Shire would be merely anticlimactic if it had been added. It's long and complex enough to need another hour, which is clearly impossible. And people would really be complaining that the ending was too long then! |
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01-17-2004, 11:31 AM | #249 |
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I agree that it was not really possible to include the scouring. But I also understand that the scouring was never a favorite part of the book for me, so I could be a little biased. Perhaps it could have been added on the dvd as a sort of appendix, but of course, it was never filmed, so it matters little.
With the scouring, I understand that it completes the story arc for the hobbits and is very important to the theme of the books, but it never really sat well with me, for some reason. I always liked the hobbits showing up and bringing order back to the Shire, but my dislike is probably because of Saruman - I had a very hard time believing that a maia could be reduced to such idiocy and weakness, even if he had been expelled from the order of wizards. The name "Sharkey" seemed too weird for me, and out of place in the book, especially in comparison with the other typical names. I think maybe, that in the movie, audiences would not have understood how he had fallen so far either. Just my opinion...
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01-17-2004, 03:32 PM | #250 | |
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It's like a double edged sword for me, because I like it and yet had those concerns at the same time...
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01-17-2004, 05:57 PM | #251 |
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Well, since two of the hobbits went to Mordor alone I guess the Shire didn't seem too perilous by comparison.
I actually think the Scouring could work as the prologue for The Hobbit. Maybe reflected in the story teller style as in the BoLT, also recalling his discussion with Frodo about the great stories. This would make the prequel tie-in to LotR and beg the question of were Bilbo got the ring in the first place.
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01-17-2004, 06:38 PM | #252 | |||
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The Hobbits were more than equipped to deal with Saruman. Galadriel and Gandalf had faith in them, and knew they were strong enough. If they hadn't been, maybe they would have helped.
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01-19-2004, 02:46 AM | #253 | |
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01-19-2004, 03:09 AM | #254 | |
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01-19-2004, 04:28 AM | #255 | |||
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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01-19-2004, 04:50 AM | #256 | |
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The names and places are the same, but really, there's not many characters who survived unscathed from the butchery that is PJ and Co's script. I wonder if they'd ever heard the phrase 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it'? Ah well, it was just my chance to have a little joke at PJ's expence. Out of curiosity, do people here peruse other LotR film related forums, and if so, do they all like to give him as huge a bashing as we do here? This forum is pretty active and has been for years, so I'd be suprised if the annoyance, disappointment, and in many cases outright hatred of his butchery is not repeated globally. |
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01-19-2004, 06:25 PM | #257 | |
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01-19-2004, 06:28 PM | #258 | |
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"THe King Of The Bling" with a picture of PJ sitting on a huge mound of Gold. But without the title Lord Of The Rings his stack of Gold wouldn't be anywhere near as much as it could have been. |
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01-19-2004, 07:22 PM | #259 | ||
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Last edited by Gerbil : 01-19-2004 at 07:23 PM. |
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01-19-2004, 10:02 PM | #260 | ||
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I guess he didn't read the Hobbit either, since Smaug dies.
Just some good natured teasing.
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