The decline of entmoot

[cassiopeia]

I'll forgive you Lalaith.
The spamming thread sounds like a means for people to increase thier post count and nothing more. Anyway, who would want to read a spamming thread when we can discuss Sam or the problems with the movies or religion? (Yes, I had to include my Sam )
Perhaps we could bump up some of the more interesting threads, that always seems to get the discussion going again.

[Lalaith]

Originally posted by cassiopeia
I'll forgive you Lalaith.
The spamming thread sounds like a means for people to increase thier post count and nothing more. Anyway, who would want to read a spamming thread when we can discuss Sam or the problems with the movies or religion? (Yes, I had to include my Sam )
Perhaps we could bump up some of the more interesting threads, that always seems to get the discussion going again.

I see your point (spamming thread). Yeah, as a newbie you love the previous poster and the anything post, there you can get to the 500 posts and get your title. I think I had already 1000 posts when I posted there (and I got my title when I had more then 900 posts).
I wonder what the mods are gonna do with the spamming threads.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Lalaith
I see your point (spamming thread). Yeah, as a newbie you love the previous poster and the anything post, there you can get to the 500 posts and get your title. I think I had already 1000 posts when I posted there (and I got my title when I had more then 900 posts).
I wonder what the mods are gonna do with the spamming threads.

This is one of the reasons I think the Anything/previous poster threads should be allowed to linger.

For some reason a few 'mooters see reaching 500 posts as their "holy Grail".............if they are that determined to reach 500 then I'd rather they did it in those threads than just post any old dross in every thread.

[Jonathan]

Originally posted by Coney
For some reason a few 'mooters see reaching 500 posts as their "holy Grail".............if they are that determined to reach 500 then I'd rather they did it in those threads than just post any old dross in every thread.

What do you think of removing all the titles? No more Elf Lords, Elven Warriors or custom titles, that would certainly make some of the new 'Mooters spam less.
Would the removal of the titles be an option?

[Aralyn]

Even in the Tolkien threads sometimes you see two friends chatting with each other about something no one else knows about. It's a little bit intimadating to post. I've only been here six months and I hate it when everyone does these little inside jokes or brings up something from a thread long ago.
I don't think we can entirely change. Entmoot will always have people who spam. Also I quit some of the Tolkien related threads because people who know more than you about Tolkien make it seem like a bad thing when you mess up or ask a question.
(this wasn't to point fingers i just wanted to show you my point of view)

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Jonathan
EDIT: Actually, with my Mud Wrestling thread, I was hoping to reduce the number of spammers. The contestants who spam too much reduce their chances of winning.

So then - does that mean that all the contestants are the mooters who you think are spammers? I don't need my post count up - so I don't even look at my count.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Jonathan
What do you think of removing all the titles? No more Elf Lords, Elven Warriors or custom titles, that would certainly make some of the new 'Mooters spam less.
Would the removal of the titles be an option?

I'm not giving up my costum titile. It has entmoot nostagalia associated with it. And very few people I think purposely try to get their post count up or just post for that single reason. At least I never did. I hadn't even asked for a custom Title - hobbit just gave it to me after the Freddie joke.

I think people should just stop having personal discussions on a thread. I know I have had some with Gimli.

[Ruinel]

Spamming threads should be allowed to stay. It keeps the spamming out of more serious threads.

There are threads that were once serious discussions that turned into spam-a-thons and I just stopped posting there. I'm not saying that I do not spam. I have done so also. Some is fine, and sometimes you just get off topic for a few posts. But I find days upon days upon days of spamming in threads... it's hard to find the last real post in something like that. It's discouraging.

So, I say let them have their own threads here in GM. Let them have their fun.

Remember that the more control you try to have over someone, the less control you will eventually have. Take the soft approach and they will be more compliant to your requests.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Are you kidding!?

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
Are you kidding!?

No. I'm not. If you need me to clarify what I'm saying, I will.

By constantly expending energy running through the 'serious' threads trying to keep people from spamming at every post that could be defined as a spam, or keeping the posts on topic, you will be run ragged (as an admin/mod). It would be impossible for the few mods/admins here to eliminate every spam or off topic post.

Therefore, we must concede to the fact that total control of such things are unobtainable. Leave those threads open that allow for a bit of mild spamming and the topics are vague. Those that want to post there would post there. Those that don't think them to have any worth have the choice to stay out of them. (I'm talking about the Previous Poster thread, the Anything Thread, and the Entmoot Wouldn't Be The Same Without thread.) This allows more time and energy to maintain control in the serious threads without all the heavy handed action that would otherwise be required. You think it's bad now? Just start closing the threads that allow for that outlet and see them all spill over into the serious threads. I really don't want to wade through pages of two people spamming sexual inuendos back and forth to find the last serious post (something I have done as well, but not in the serious threads). I don't care if it's here, just don't bring it back up to the serious threads.

I know that you, SGH, and I have personally lead some of the discussions way off topic. We stand accused and answer for those crimes. I say, 'guilty'.

For all of you waiting for the oportunity to blast me. Just letting you know, I'm doing my best to turn over new 'no-spamming' and 'stay on topic' leaves. I may or may not be successful, as I know how easily lead off topic I can be. I've already restrained myself from snapping back at another mooter, twice just today and several times in the past couple of days. That's pretty good for me.

[Coney]

Originally posted by Jonathan
What do you think of removing all the titles? No more Elf Lords, Elven Warriors or custom titles, that would certainly make some of the new 'Mooters spam less.
Would the removal of the titles be an option?

I like the idea of the custom title, it's another little thing to play with on the 'moot

What I don't understand is why folks have to wait until 500 posts to choose one...........a lot of other message boards let you have your own title after either 10 or so posts, or sometimes even less.

On the 'moot being able to change your custom title seems to be a priveldge you have to earn by posting 500 times

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
No. I'm not. If you need me to clarify what I'm saying, I will.

By constantly expending energy running through the 'serious' threads trying to keep people from spamming at every post that could be defined as a spam, or keeping the posts on topic, you will be run ragged (as an admin/mod). It would be impossible for the few mods/admins here to eliminate every spam or off topic post.

Therefore, we must concede to the fact that total control of such things are unobtainable. Leave those threads open that allow for a bit of mild spamming and the topics are vague. Those that want to post there would post there. Those that don't think them to have any worth have the choice to stay out of them. (I'm talking about the Previous Poster thread, the Anything Thread, and the Entmoot Wouldn't Be The Same Without thread.) This allows more time and energy to maintain control in the serious threads without all the heavy handed action that would otherwise be required. You think it's bad now? Just start closing the threads that allow for that outlet and see them all spill over into the serious threads. I really don't want to wade through pages of two people spamming sexual inuendos back and forth to find the last serious post (something I have done as well, but not in the serious threads). I don't care if it's here, just don't bring it back up to the serious threads.

I disagree. Tell me, if we did that, what would be the point of having posting policies, rules, and mods/admins?

I know that you, SGH, and I have personally lead some of the discussions way off topic. We stand accused and answer for those crimes. I say, 'guilty'.

I'll admit my guilt there. That started in the "favorite male character" thread. But it even spilled over into the Silmarillion forum, and I tried several times to get these threads back on topic. The "forgotten Fingon" thread had to be closed because it was so far off topic that it couldn't be saved.

For all of you waiting for the oportunity to blast me. Just letting you know, I'm doing my best to turn over new 'no-spamming' and 'stay on topic' leaves. I may or may not be successful, as I know how easily lead off topic I can be. I've already restrained myself from snapping back at another mooter, twice just today and several times in the past couple of days. That's pretty good for me.

Glad to hear it, and I think it is something we all need to work at.

[Lady of Rohan]

As for the custom title idea...... instead of having it when you reach 500 posts, it could be when you have been here for a certain amount of time. Might not be possible, but then it would give people less of an urge to spam. Or it could mebe be a combination of both or something. *shrugs*

No wait.... does this belong in the mods admin/cleaning GM thread?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Yep. These two threads are similar, so a bit

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Lady of Rohan
As for the custom title idea...... instead of having it when you reach 500 posts, it could be when you have been here for a certain amount of time. Might not be possible, but then it would give people less of an urge to spam. Or it could mebe be a combination of both or something. *shrugs*

well the idea is to honor people who make a contribution to the moot. If you go only by date - then someone can just post a couple of times a month and not really contribute much and then get a custom title. If someone really spams then their posts can be deleted or their threads- which will lower their post count. This was done several times last year I think against people who spammed a lot.

No wait.... does this belong in the mods admin/cleaning GM thread?

It may.

[Starr Polish]

Well, after some consideration (and summer vacation, thus free time, looming ahead), I probably won't leave permanently. I should be trying to help start interesting conversations in the book forum instead of sitting here whining, and I plan on doing so. I would participate more in the Sil forum, since a lot of serious discussion goes on there, but I haven't managed to finish the entire thing yet.

I agree with Coney, the Anything Post should stay. Heck, I've posted there before. It is the essential chit chat thread, because it is usually occupied by the same few people any given week.

Perhaps a combination of post count and lenght of stay could determine whether or not custom titles are available.

[Ruinel]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I disagree. Tell me, if we did that, what would be the point of having posting policies, rules, and mods/admins?

As I said before, I moved away from the serious threads for a while because they were dominated by spam-a-thons.

The posting policies and rules would still be enforced, you just wouldn't have to enforce it so much in the more serious threads, if there was an outlet. I'm not saying eliminate the rules and posting policy, absolutley not. But please, do you really think that some of the worst of the spammers are going to quit if you close the vague threads? No, they'll keep spamming. Where do you think they're going to spam? They'll find any convenient place they can to spam.

This isn't a black or white issue: allow all spam or none at all. There are grey areas to consider. Certainly, do not encourage the spamming! But if you think that it can be completely and easily eliminated, you are fooling yourself.

Someone posted that thread starters should help to mod the threads as well (maybe JD, not sure). I think that is a very good idea.

I'll admit my guilt there. That started in the "favorite male character" thread. But it even spilled over into the Silmarillion forum, and I tried several times to get these threads back on topic. The "forgotten Fingon" thread had to be closed because it was so far off topic that it couldn't be saved.

Yes... I remember. I got the impression that anytime I posted anything you were looking for me to start it all up again. it was a bit frustrating sometimes to find a thread to post in without dealing with you and your love of the same Elf. Good thing I'm a tough cookie. That might have driven some people away.

[jerseydevil]

Originally posted by Ruinel
This isn't a black or white issue: allow all spam or none at all. There are grey areas to consider. Certainly, do not encourage the spamming! But if you think that it can be completely and easily eliminated, you are fooling yourself.

I don't think anyone is trying to eliminate all spamming - but just control it. I participate in a lot of serious discussion - but sometimes you just need a break and spend some time in the "brainless threads" as I call them. Getting into heated discussions over Iraq, the Middle East and Europe can wear a person out.

I should spend more time in the Tolkien book forums - but there is only so much time in a day. Also - even though I've read the books 12 times - I feel like I've lost so much of my knowledge - even if others who I have talked to seem to think my knowledge of Tolkien is still above average.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Ruinel
As I said before, I moved away from the serious threads for a while because they were dominated by spam-a-thons.

The posting policies and rules would still be enforced, you just wouldn't have to enforce it so much in the more serious threads, if there was an outlet. I'm not saying eliminate the rules and posting policy, absolutley not. But please, do you really think that some of the worst of the spammers are going to quit if you close the vague threads? No, they'll keep spamming. Where do you think they're going to spam? They'll find any convenient place they can to spam.

This isn't a black or white issue: allow all spam or none at all. There are grey areas to consider. Certainly, do not encourage the spamming! But if you think that it can be completely and easily eliminated, you are fooling yourself.

It certianly is not realistic to think that all the spamming is going to disappear, so no, I am not fooling myself there. What I am saying, is that by allowing a thread to exist for the sole purpose of spamming is a direct violation of the posting policies. For example: it is against the rules to advertise on Entmoot except in the designated thread in GMs, or in ones sig. I think the reasons are obvious as to why it is like that. Spamming though, is an action that is in no way acceptable. There are even laws that exist against it with certian internet providers. If you wouldn't want your own personal email box flooded by spam, why would you want a thread on your favorite MB that would be flooded by it? I agree that it is impossible to eliminate spam entirely, but giving spammers a thread of their own could make things worse, because it makes a statement that Entmoot condones spamming inspite of its rules against it.

Someone posted that thread starters should help to mod the threads as well (maybe JD, not sure). I think that is a very good idea.

The staff always hopes for members to moderate with them. That is why there is that link in every post that says: "Report this post to a moderator"

Yes... I remember. I got the impression that anytime I posted anything you were looking for me to start it all up again. it was a bit frustrating sometimes to find a thread to post in without dealing with you and your love of the same Elf. Good thing I'm a tough cookie. That might have driven some people away.

That was one of those things that was somewhat funny, even to others. However, it was getting out of hand. As I have said before, I have no problem with a bit of light hearted fun, but we all have to know when to quit.

[Ruinel]

I actually had to give up my old email account because I would get, on average, 15 spams a day. So, I just dumped the account and moved on. One of the reasons is because you get your profile sold, so now I have so many profiles. I'm anywhere from 16 yrs old to 85 years old, I'm single, married and divorced, I have no kids to 8 kids, I am unemployed, retired, make $15000 a year or less to $150,000 a year or more... will the real Ruinel please stand up? lol! I've found through trial and error it is best to be very, very young and unemployed or very, very old and on a small fixed income.

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I agree that it is impossible to eliminate spam entirely, but giving spammers a thread of their own could make things worse, because it makes a statement that Entmoot condones spamming inspite of its rules against it.

I see your point.

That was one of those things that was somewhat funny, even to others. ...but we all have to know when to quit.

lol! Agreed. I am currently working very hard at self control. If you knew me personally, you'd know how hard this really is. I just came across another one, wow... I really wanted to get him, bad ... but I held back. *pats self on back*