Teacup Cafe XXXIV

[Willow Oran]

I think it's the same problem. Forcing kids to be in school is not the same as forcing them to learn anything. Dropout rates prove that, even if nothing else does. SO the problem is "What can the government do to get our population the greatest access to education?"

It isn't though, because kids don't start making such choices until they've had at least five/six years of compulsory education. Without that experience they cannot choose either way. The question is not whether kids should be made to go to school in the first place, but how do we entice them to stay there once they are old enough to make their own choices.

I'm off to work now. Lovely discussing with you.

[Rían]

I'm going to do some math tutoring in a minute ...


*grabs a cup of tea and dashes out*

[katya]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

Isn't that what I said? Parents have to do their bit...and most would rather have their kids taught by professional teachers than do it themselves.

I think it's the same problem. Forcing kids to be in school is not the same as forcing them to learn anything. Dropout rates prove that, even if nothing else does. SO the problem is "What can the government do to get our population the greatest access to education?"

Don't you think most teachers would rather have a class full of kids who WANT to be there?

I agree with you here. I think compulsory education is one of the reasons that people don't value education anymore. It's something we have to suffer through, something to get a degree so that we can get a good job, etc. Even my classmates who did value learning somewhat in high school got sick of that attitude within the first first month of class. People don't have the same attitude anymore as when, for example, slaves used to teach themselves how to read and write at the risk of severe punishment.

Pretty classist, don't you think? Upper class kids value education, but working class families don't. Wow.

Got any statistics to back that one up?

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2004...ndicator16.asp Shows, as the first hit on google under "drop-out rates income" that lower income families had a much higher drop-out rate. This one says the same, under "What are the trends?": http://www.ed.gov/pubs/OR/ConsumerGuides/dropout.html
I don't think it's wrong to point out class differences where they exist. It's not that all families think one way or the other, or that it's really about actually valuing education, but I think Curufin's saying that there would be a lot more working class kids not going to school and not getting an education is a valid point. It's not like something in the genes or anything- my family is the working-classest of the working class, but my mom values education tremendously. But it's there in the social conditions, I mean, for example, poor inner city schools without steady teachers, with buildings that are falling apart, etc.- that's going to affect kids. It's going to make them feel like education is not worth their time, and that they are not worth educating properly.

[shesabrandybuck]

I am truely upset that I missed this debate.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by katya

I agree with you here. I think compulsory education is one of the reasons that people don't value education anymore. It's something we have to suffer through, something to get a degree so that we can get a good job, etc. Even my classmates who did value learning somewhat in high school got sick of that attitude within the first first month of class. People don't have the same attitude anymore as when, for example, slaves used to teach themselves how to read and write at the risk of severe punishment.


http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2004...ndicator16.asp Shows, as the first hit on google under "drop-out rates income" that lower income families had a much higher drop-out rate. This one says the same, under "What are the trends?": http://www.ed.gov/pubs/OR/ConsumerGuides/dropout.html
I don't think it's wrong to point out class differences where they exist. It's not that all families think one way or the other, or that it's really about actually valuing education, but I think Curufin's saying that there would be a lot more working class kids not going to school and not getting an education is a valid point. It's not like something in the genes or anything- my family is the working-classest of the working class, but my mom values education tremendously. But it's there in the social conditions, I mean, for example, poor inner city schools without steady teachers, with buildings that are falling apart, etc.- that's going to affect kids. It's going to make them feel like education is not worth their time, and that they are not worth educating properly.

That's my point exactly, though. I don't believe working class families (including mine) "value education less" and I want to be careful to distinguish "working class" from "poor", because there are more gradiations than "rich" and "working class". We have to be ready to admit that America has poor people, and not only "working class" ones.
And isn't that the problem we need to address? I drove a school bus and I had parents on my high school route. Those kids didn't need more laws to force them to go to school. They needed good childcare, preferably IN school. Our students need the kind of support that makes their lives manageable, including improving conditions in the schools. And we should be able to kick out kids who aren't participating, but leave them options for success.

That's a lot different than just writing a law they have to go.

[klatukatt]

Wazzup guys? Go youtube Hawkapella if you got nothin else to do.

I should be NaNoWriMo ing.

[katya]

You're doing a novel, Katt? I'm doing one this year. It's going surprisingly well. I'm still only at 6000 or so, but that's because I skipped a bunch of days when I was away and because I have homework and Twilight.

[klatukatt]

My novel is still all hard copy, seeing as my computer broke and I don't want to write the thing on an ipod.

[Empress_Flynn]

Hey all... just letting you know i'll be MIA for a few days... traveling tomorrow, back to England, and won't be there til Wednesday afternoon and then probly won't be on my comp til Thursday or so...

Have fun, don't get into too much trouble

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Empress_Flynn

Hey all... just letting you know i'll be MIA for a few days... traveling tomorrow, back to England, and won't be there til Wednesday afternoon and then probly won't be on my comp til Thursday or so...

Have fun, don't get into too much trouble

Travel safe, honey.

[Full Metal Aragorn]

Kicks everybody's ass just for good measure.

Hey all! I'm bout to go out for drinkies with a certain lovely lass of mine. HAPPY DAYS.

[Grey_Wolf]

*The Collegeal Monster romped about (inspired by the rompiness of the Mooter Students) in the Cafe.*

[klatukatt]

Originally Posted by Full Metal Aragorn

Kicks everybody's ass just for good measure.

Hey all! I'm bout to go out for drinkies with a certain lovely lass of mine. HAPPY DAYS.

Oy! What lovely lass would this be?

[BeardofPants]

Originally Posted by Full Metal Aragorn

Hold on a beat, I like Ringo! He's not so bad. Nice and queit. And he wrote Octopus' Garden. Among others. I like that song.

Sucky in a relative way. As much as Paul grates my goat, I gotta admit that he sometimes had talent. Ringo, not so much (in terms of singing/song writing). Good drummer though.

Originally Posted by Mari

I don't like CSI...

Me either!!

[Mari]

*groan* Pedagogy... Interesting course but the book is BAD. I wrote an essay on how bad it was and why, giving examples and everything, and handed it to my teacher. She agreed with me
But of course the exam is on what's written in the book. How am I supposed to study a book that has important words and terms printed either this way or this way every other 5 words?!? And of course every term is explained with at least 3 different definitions
*grumble grumble*

[Tessar]

I'm kind of nervous about my voice lesson today. I've been working a bit on my song that I'm supposed to perform Thursday (for for small seminar... just the people in my studio) and... ergh. I dunno. We'll see if he lets me sing it or not.

[Willow Oran]

Have some lemon ginger tea, Tess. Good for the throat.

Mm. Dad decided to make ebleskivers for breakfast. Yum.

[Mari]

Eblewhat?
It sounds strange, but also yummy... Odd

[Curufin]

I did really good at Weight Watcher's today (I've lost a total of 6.6 lbs in 2 weeks!) and so I decided to treat myself by ordering a whole bunch of my favorite soaps from England.

I love Lush.

[Willow Oran]

Eblewhat?
It sounds strange, but also yummy... Odd

Pancake balls, often with fruit or jam in the middle and rolled in powdered sugar. Supposedly a norwegian thing. Yes, very tasty.