Blame Fëanor - Page 12

katya · 07-18-2005, 11:23 AM

I think that if you think in a purely cause and effect way then a lot of things are Fëanor's fault. But I don't really believe in anything being anyone's fault. Surely it wasn't Fëanor's fault that he was born? He didn't choose his personality. If he did it was only because already existant parts of his personality compelled him to change himself. He was only acting in the only way he ever could. Whether you believe in determinism or fatalism that is true. I think Fëanor was a jerk and an idiot and a lot of the things he did (especially where it causes trouble for others) make me mad. Still... (to semi-quote Brandon Heat)

He's got a lot of pride. Fëanor was a true man. Er, elf.

brownjenkins · 07-18-2005, 02:14 PM

well-put katya

Lotesse · 07-18-2005, 02:24 PM

You HAVE made very good points, Katya, but Feanor was NOT an idiot. He knew what he was doing, even if his overwhelming emotions prevented him from being able to "do the right thing". I personally believe he always regretted burning up those beautiful ships, and betraying all his followers like that, but after he did it, he couldn't undo his actions. He had to live with it, with the knowledge of what he'd allowed himself to do. I don't believe in playing the blame game, because - as Jesus says somewhere in the bible - let he who is without sin cast the first stone. And Iluvatar can't cast that stone; it was he who began the whole scenario by creating those he created with gifts/characters/abilities/desires/emotions that would lead to certain events coming to be. Iluvatar created evil as well as good. He must have known how the entire experiment would turn out, from the onset to its finish.

katya · 07-18-2005, 03:04 PM

What I meant was he didn't make very good decisions strategically speaking. For example, seemed to me that it didn't even occur to him how he was going to get to Middle Earth until they were already well on their way in the journey.

Lotesse · 07-18-2005, 03:12 PM

I know, it's because he was letting his emotions rule him, instead of thinking rationally.

katya · 07-18-2005, 03:34 PM

I agree. In a way I like that about him.

I was thinking it'd be cute if someone made like a website about this thread. I've seen similar things like there was one about saving the cactaurs, from final fantasy. Just a thought.

Lotesse · 07-18-2005, 04:14 PM

What website, katya? Tell me more, enquiring Feanorians want to know

...

katya · 07-18-2005, 04:19 PM

You mean the cactaur one? I discovered it a long time ago and I don't know where it is anymore. Basically, it was urging people to stop hunting cactaurs, which are now endangered due to overhunting because of the lure of 20 AP. It was really cute.

Lotesse · 08-03-2005, 11:59 PM

I really love the idea of cactaurs - I have a beautiful, rather large cactus in a pot, and I can definitely see "him" as sentient...
Here's some cactaur stuff:

http://alternatehistory.com/discussi...ead.php?t=5745

Anybody know where I can get to the root of cactaurs, so to speak? I'm curious to know who first conceived of them.

katya · 08-04-2005, 04:23 AM

I like cactaurs too. But I'm partial to moombas. (Kyaaaaa, Laguna is so coool! <3 )

I feel bad going off topic. I don't know how many people still care about this thread though. Someone should think of the most random things possible and try to blame Fëanor. In the way that Raskolnikov's friend in Crime and Punishment made a bet that he could prove something about someone's facial hair was a direct result of the height of some building. I forgot the details. See what I'm saying? A prize for the best attempt.

Lotesse · 08-04-2005, 11:59 AM

Aahh, then I shouldn't be on this thread - I get tired of everyone blaming Feanor for everything wrong that happens under the middle-earth sun.

brownjenkins · 08-04-2005, 12:20 PM

yeah... when it comes right down to it, it was all eru's fault

Lotesse · 08-04-2005, 12:25 PM

Absolutely.

katya · 08-04-2005, 05:30 PM

But in a way, blaming Fëanor for everything, even things that he obviously had no part in, sort of makes him seem more innocent. It's like proving that you can blame anything on anyone if you try hard enough, even if it's not true. Therefore, all evidence against Fëanor becomes invalid.

Lotesse · 08-04-2005, 05:31 PM

I like the way you think, Katya!

katya · 08-04-2005, 05:40 PM

Thanks.

Andúril · 08-06-2005, 10:22 AM

I blame Fëanor for assuming all the blame. Or something. It sounded better in my head.

ecthelion · 08-07-2005, 06:26 AM

I blame F for the unmatchdom of hot-dog eight-packs and six-pacs of the buns they are supposed to go into
Its because of his hiding the light of the silmarils and reason from the peoples of ME

Lotesse · 08-07-2005, 02:15 PM

Ecthelion, THAT was good!

Talk about creatively obscure... Poor Feanor, gets blamed for EVERYthing!

Lenya · 08-08-2005, 09:27 AM

'cause he deserves it. ALL of it

07-18-2005, 02:14 PM	#222
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	well-put katya __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

07-18-2005, 02:24 PM	#223
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	You HAVE made very good points, Katya, but Feanor was NOT an idiot. He knew what he was doing, even if his overwhelming emotions prevented him from being able to "do the right thing". I personally believe he always regretted burning up those beautiful ships, and betraying all his followers like that, but after he did it, he couldn't undo his actions. He had to live with it, with the knowledge of what he'd allowed himself to do. I don't believe in playing the blame game, because - as Jesus says somewhere in the bible - let he who is without sin cast the first stone. And Iluvatar can't cast that stone; it was he who began the whole scenario by creating those he created with gifts/characters/abilities/desires/emotions that would lead to certain events coming to be. Iluvatar created evil as well as good. He must have known how the entire experiment would turn out, from the onset to its finish. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

07-18-2005, 03:12 PM	#225
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	I know, it's because he was letting his emotions rule him, instead of thinking rationally. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

07-18-2005, 04:14 PM	#227
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	What website, katya? Tell me more, enquiring Feanorians want to know ... __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-03-2005, 11:59 PM	#229
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Cactaurs I really love the idea of cactaurs - I have a beautiful, rather large cactus in a pot, and I can definitely see "him" as sentient... Here's some cactaur stuff: http://alternatehistory.com/discussi...ead.php?t=5745 Anybody know where I can get to the root of cactaurs, so to speak? I'm curious to know who first conceived of them. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

07-18-2005, 11:23 AM	#221
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I think that if you think in a purely cause and effect way then a lot of things are Fëanor's fault. But I don't really believe in anything being anyone's fault. Surely it wasn't Fëanor's fault that he was born? He didn't choose his personality. If he did it was only because already existant parts of his personality compelled him to change himself. He was only acting in the only way he ever could. Whether you believe in determinism or fatalism that is true. I think Fëanor was a jerk and an idiot and a lot of the things he did (especially where it causes trouble for others) make me mad. Still... (to semi-quote Brandon Heat) He's got a lot of pride. Fëanor was a true man. Er, elf.

07-18-2005, 03:04 PM	#224
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	What I meant was he didn't make very good decisions strategically speaking. For example, seemed to me that it didn't even occur to him how he was going to get to Middle Earth until they were already well on their way in the journey.

07-18-2005, 03:34 PM	#226
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I agree. In a way I like that about him. I was thinking it'd be cute if someone made like a website about this thread. I've seen similar things like there was one about saving the cactaurs, from final fantasy. Just a thought.

07-18-2005, 04:19 PM	#228
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	You mean the cactaur one? I discovered it a long time ago and I don't know where it is anymore. Basically, it was urging people to stop hunting cactaurs, which are now endangered due to overhunting because of the lure of 20 AP. It was really cute.

08-04-2005, 04:23 AM	#230
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	I like cactaurs too. But I'm partial to moombas. (Kyaaaaa, Laguna is so coool! <3 ) I feel bad going off topic. I don't know how many people still care about this thread though. Someone should think of the most random things possible and try to blame Fëanor. In the way that Raskolnikov's friend in Crime and Punishment made a bet that he could prove something about someone's facial hair was a direct result of the height of some building. I forgot the details. See what I'm saying? A prize for the best attempt.

08-04-2005, 11:59 AM	#231
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Aahh, then I shouldn't be on this thread - I get tired of everyone blaming Feanor for everything wrong that happens under the middle-earth sun. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-04-2005, 12:20 PM	#232
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	yeah... when it comes right down to it, it was all eru's fault __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

08-04-2005, 12:25 PM	#233
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Absolutely. __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-04-2005, 05:30 PM	#234
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	But in a way, blaming Fëanor for everything, even things that he obviously had no part in, sort of makes him seem more innocent. It's like proving that you can blame anything on anyone if you try hard enough, even if it's not true. Therefore, all evidence against Fëanor becomes invalid.

08-04-2005, 05:31 PM	#235
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	I like the way you think, Katya! __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-04-2005, 05:40 PM	#236
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	Thanks.

08-06-2005, 10:22 AM	#237
Andúril The Original Corruptor Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,881	I blame Fëanor for assuming all the blame. Or something. It sounded better in my head.

08-07-2005, 06:26 AM	#238
ecthelion Enting Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Gondolin. in travian.it server5 Posts: 91	I blame F for the unmatchdom of hot-dog eight-packs and six-pacs of the buns they are supposed to go into Its because of his hiding the light of the silmarils and reason from the peoples of ME __________________ The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day! What does "LOL" mean?

08-07-2005, 02:15 PM	#239
Lotesse of the House of Fëanor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 6,150	Ecthelion, THAT was good! Talk about creatively obscure... Poor Feanor, gets blamed for EVERYthing! __________________ Few people have the imagination for reality. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

08-08-2005, 09:27 AM	#240
Lenya Elentári Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: South Africa Posts: 727	'cause he deserves it. ALL of it

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