Relativism VS. Absoulte

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

Wow, that's really interesting, RE.

But I really loved the irony of Satan's name being Lucifer...and it makes sense, seeing as he was once an angel...

[afro-elf]

SAM what the hell was that post?

religion is not the cause of hospitals. Sick people wanting to healthy is. And this talk of Islamic and chinese medicence being some grand and glorious is just popular poo poo.

check out some REAL history of medicence

This was not said in a way to flame.

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by afro-elf
This not said in a way to flame.

Of course not!

[afro-elf]

sam go here


http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/medic...int/home.shtml

[Sween]

Originally posted by samwise of the shire
But Sween cummunisim is BASED on atheism. Lookit Marx, Wasn't HE an atheist? And he was the INVENTOR of communisim. Sween it was relegion that gave us something to mellow out the effects of war made by warring relegions. That would be Hospitals and doctors. Hospitals and surgeons are recorded in England and other places such as the Middle East and Asia as far back as Medival times (further actually because the first heart transplant took place in Greece).
England was at that time in history a CATHOLIC country and these hospitals were run by catholic nuns. The Middle East was(and still is)a country run by Islamic rule and they had some of the best doctors in history who actually KNEW what they were doing when it came to medicene. And Asia was(and still is) Buddist and they had some AWSOME natural remedies such as tea and the like. Of course all of those countries relied on superstition as much as anything, but even then superstition is only a belief of something more powerful then a mortal human being. And all of these relegions Buddism,Islam, and Christianity are at war with each other.
Yet because of relegions we now have English hospitals, Middle Eastern doctors, and Asian remedies, which combine to make healing EASIER and less painful then in past ages.
So yes relegions cause alot of wars(in fact we're in one now)but without them being cured from whatever ailments would be deadlier then catching the ailment. See what I'm getting at?
If not I'll post somemore LATER,
Cheers and may it STAY that way,
Sam

I find your argueement based on the fact that the middle east and asia produce a lot of doctors facinating. It doesnt have anything to do with religion at all. Doctors become doctors though study of the human body and intelegence. It true the east has worked in diffrent ways to the west for a long time (only a few hundred years we just took the old knife and saw to everything) but this is more to research. Countiries under islamic rule hmmmmmmm yes places like saudi aribia may produce a lot of doctors but you can also get you hand chopped off and women are not aloowed to show there faces.

As for what you are aiming out without religion there would be no good people who would help. This is simple not the case. If i saw a situation i could help i sure as hell would. All religion say some good things. But religion is the majot cause of difference and intolerece. It divides people on such a level. People who strongly support religion are biased and blind and have set ideas. im not against any one religion we should just get rid of them all.

my perents made me go to church when i was young and i refused to go at age of five saying 'this is all wrong' and they said yes it is all wrong son the only thing you should believe in is yourself and other people not in some phony god.

[Elvellon]

Well it is natural that less medically savvy cultures would turn to religion (or simply the supernatural) as part of the healing process. After all, it is in dire situations (like when you or a close relative of yours are in pain) that people feel greater need to spiritual comfort and hope. So that’s why the association between religion and medicine started.

Medicine wasn’t the result of religion; merely it was something that associated itself naturally with it.

[Sween]

i think a lot of people turn to religion when sumone is about to die just out of despiration not that they think it will help. But people who are ill are just covering there bases.

Ill probably repent on me death bed just to be sure u know

[emplynx]

Originally posted by Sween
]Ill probably repent on me death bed just to be sure u know

If God doesn't exist...
...and you reject him, you gain finitely.
...and you accept him, you loose finitely.
If God does exist...
...and you reject him, you loose infinitely.
...and you accept him, you gain infinitely.

[Elvellon]

Sween, they would be in a highly emotional state; it is not simply a rational choice of covering all the possibilities. People under such circumstances are [usually] very frightened, feeling powerless, and do need something to hold on, hence greater religiousness.

[Elvellon]

Emplenix, belief in God should not be done because one thinks it have anything to gain from it.

Personally I admire much more the unbeliever that lives his life as a moral men, expecting nothing after death, that the believer that does so, waiting for Paradise as his reward.

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

I don't see why I would need the excuse of religion to do good. If I see someone hurt I will help them, not because of god, but because I believe we have a responsibility to help each other, being here on the same planet and all. Has nothing to do with religion.

[Wayfarer]

To be sure... you can do good without any reason at all. But that's the difference between relativism and absolutism.

Relativitism says that doing good is fine if that's what you want to do, but if you want to rape, pillage, and murder, well, that's your choice as well. In fact, it's not a matter of good at all, it's simply one thing versus another thing.

Absolutism says that you should do good whether you feel like it at the moment or not, because some things are actually better than other things, not simply for you in this instance, but for everyone in every instance.

That said, I'll move back a little.

Elvellon: In christianity, at least (although it's probably unique in this) heaven is not something that is rewarded based on how you live your life, but something that anyone who wishes may have. As a collory, people who have assurance of heaven upon death will be motivated to act out that assurance, not in hopes of making themselves good enough to enter the presence of god, but because the presence of God is making them good in ways they couldn't otherwise be.

[Blackheart]

Help me ancient ones.

The monkeys have taken over. Listen to them chatter endlessly about ethics, politics, meaning, religion and global corporations.

Give me strength that I may purge them from the planet, and your chosen race, the Deep Ones, may once again walk the land!

Of course, I'd like to keep a couple of the females as pets....

[BeardofPants]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
Absolutism says that you should do good whether you feel like it at the moment or not, because some things are actually better than other things, not simply for you in this instance, but for everyone in every instance.

Or absolute evil monkey boy.

[Elvellon]

Elvellon: In christianity, at least (although it's probably unique in this) heaven is not something that is rewarded based on how you live your life, but something that anyone who wishes may have. As a collory, people who have assurance of heaven upon death will be motivated to act out that assurance, not in hopes of making themselves good enough to enter the presence of god, but because the presence of God is making them good in ways they couldn't otherwise be.

In theory that’s how it works, but the long used argument is much simpler; be good and have faith and you go to haven, be bad and/or not have faith and you go to hell.

[samwise of the shire]

Central to the Islamic religion is the Qu'ran, or Holy Book. It teaches that the rich should provide for the poor and the healthy should look after the sick.

Afro Elf and for you others who think that Relegion has NOTHING to do with hospitals or medecine. Read the qoute. It says that the Koran teaches that the rich should provide for the poor and that the heathly should provide for the sick. The HOLY BOOK OF ISLAM. Sounds like relegion had alot to do with the middle eastern hospitals. Afro, England was a country that though it was catholic was STEEPED in a spiritual darkness, they didn't know the full gospel. They had to rely on pardoners and summoners and minstrels on the street(GREAT place to learn the gospel. Yeah right) so the people were taught that if they didn't buy a certain ammount of relegious relics they would go to hell(and hell was something they emphisised in England then.)
Now tell me HONESTLY. If you were sick and were brought up under the STUPID impression that if you didn't do such and such a thing you would go to hell wouldn't you want to be healed?So even if the hosptials came about because people merely wished ot be healed(well no WONDER. They were scared of death and so they didn't want to die.) So relegion STILL comes into it...if that was the way it was. The Bible too says to take care of the ill and poor. And that's what the nuns in England DID, even though thier medical knowledge was crappy. And if it hadn't been for the varios holy books the people wouldn't have been taught that human life has value(I mean they knew more about THAT then we do today.) and should be saved if possible.
Ok I want to ask you guys a question...where did the idea of No right No wrong come from? Back in the 50's and before there was no such thing. So if morals was made up by the society...then where did this idea come from? Do we sih to go back to Eden THAT bad and talk to God again FACE TO FACE? Sweet!! Or is it the other way around. Do we wish to deny there IS a God? Just an idea and please dont tar and feather me for it.
Just a few ideas if you dont mind folks,
Cheers and may it stay that way,
Sam

[Rána Eressëa]

Okay, I think it's time we had a group hug. *stretches out her arms as far as she can*

[Eruviel Greenleaf]

hear, hear! Good idea, Rana!

[BeardofPants]

But what if I get boy germs?

[Andúril]

Emplynx and Pascal, sitting in a tree.....