03-26-2002, 08:33 AM | #221 | |
Self-Appointed Lord of the Free Peoples of the General Messages
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03-26-2002, 09:00 AM | #222 |
the Shrike
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Go, Afro-Elf! Thanks for picking up the arguments, I was beginning to go numb in the head, from the insanity on this board! Great concise arguments, very well constructed. I don't know much about Aristotlian theory, except for that duality thing, and I didn't much think that was relevant to the arguments.
Regarding the previous theories, ie flat earth, and sun revolving around the Earth: they are Christian Dogma. No two ways about it. Scientists were 'hung, drawn, and quatered', for daring to go beyond the ideas of the day. Ditto, for opposing religious ideas. People have been known to be black listed for their beliefs.
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03-26-2002, 12:23 PM | #223 | ||
Elf Lord
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Okay, this story must be enough to make you wonder if there's a God: My uncle turned away from Christianity a long, long time ago. God told a lady who was a friend of my uncle's family that she wouldn't die until he became a Christian. Well, my uncle is still not a Christian, and the lady is 114 years old!!! (I'm not lying, either.) And thanks to all you people who picked up for me when I had to go to sleep. Quote:
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Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE Last edited by Khadrane : 03-26-2002 at 12:27 PM. |
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03-26-2002, 01:48 PM | #224 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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03-26-2002, 02:14 PM | #225 | |
Elf Lord
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Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
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03-26-2002, 04:15 PM | #226 | ||||
Hoplite Nomad
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I think that is just an ancedote. Do this you provide me with some contrete proof and PM me . then I'll might go Hmmmmm. otherwise it is hearsay Quote:
didn't you read this Quote:
the RETURN module was made not to sink because it was made to to hit WATER. Have you not even seen the lunar landing vechile?
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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03-26-2002, 04:41 PM | #227 | |
the Shrike
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Also, consider the vacuum of space, you really think it's not going act upon layers upon layers of dust? And consider the temperatures... Very Very Cold. No moisture, maybe ice. How is this going to produce 'quick sand'. Consider also, the lack of gravity: how would you sink? Hmmmm....
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03-26-2002, 04:45 PM | #228 | |
the Shrike
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03-26-2002, 05:53 PM | #229 |
Elven Warrior
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Once again you bring up accuracy of radiometric dating. I am sorry that it took me so long to come up with a suitable resoponce on the issue. These are all quotes from non-chrisitian scientists who see serious problems with the methods. To make it easyer, I am even giving referances in case you want to look it up.
The dating of geologic ages and events in terms of years rather than stage of evolution depends on a handful of radiometric techniques--especially the decay of uranium into lead. Also of importance are the potassium/argon method, the rubidium/strontium method, the fission-track method and a few others of less importance. These are widely trumpeted as proving the billion-year order of magnitude age of the earth and of the evolutionary process. Not so widely known, however, are the many untestable assumptions in these methods (e.g., isolated system, constant decay rate, initial conditions) as well as the fact that most such measurements give inconsistent results and are never published. The bottom line is that no radiometrically determined date obtained by these methods is valid. Simply by changing the assumptions, all actual radiometric dates can be brought down to essentially zero. Boyle, R. W., "Some Geochemical Considerations on Lead Isotope Dating of Lead Deposits," Economic Geology, vol. 54, no. 1 (January/February 1959), pp. 130-135. "The ratio of the lead isotopes in deposits deriving their lead from such rocks [i.e., Precambrian granites] is, therefore, neither a measure of the age of the deposits nor the age of the sedimentary host rocks but is rather a function of the complex geochemical processes through which the lead may have passed." p. 133 "From these examples it is readily apparent that the amount of accumulated radiogenic lead contributed to a deposit is the deciding factor in age determinations and must be known before any age can be assigned to a deposit." p. 135 Brooks, C., D. E. James, and S. R. Hart, "Ancient Lithosphere: Its Role in Young Continental Volcanism," Science, vol. 193 (September 17, 1976), pp. 1086-1094. "One serious consequence of the mantle isochron model is that crystallization ages determined on basic igneous rocks by the Rb-Sr whole-rock technique can be greater than the true age by many hundreds of millions of years. This problem of inherited age is more serious for younger rocks, and there are well-documented instances of conflicts between stratigraphic age and Rb-Sr in the literature." p. 1093 Catanzaro, E. J., and J. L. Kulp, "Discordant Zircons from the Little Belt (Montana), Beartooth (Montana) and Santa Catalina (Arizona) Mountains," Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta, vol. 28 (January 1964), pp. 87-124. "The common occurrence of discordant results in isotopic geochronometry presents an intriguing and complicated problem. It has become obvious that many mineral samples used in age determinations have not been closed systems throughout their histories. The interpretation of isotopic ages ultimately requires knowledge of the processes which can cause alteration of the isotopic ratios." p. 87 Engels, Joan C., "Effects of Sample Purity on Discordant Mineral Ages Found in K-Ar Dating," Journal of Geology, vol. 79 (September 1971), pp. 609-616. "It is now well known that K-Ar ages obtained from different minerals in a single rock may be strikingly discordant." p. 609 "Discordances between mineral K-Ar ages in a single rock sample are common, and if these minerals are mutual contaminants, purity levels must be carefully established in order to avoid mixed, meaningless ages." p. 615 Faure, G., and J. L. Powell, Strontium Isotope Geology (New York: Springer-Verlag, 1972). "It is readily apparent that these rocks [i.e., the Pahrump diabase from the Panamint Mountains in California] scatter widely on the isochron diagram. Dates ranging from 1.09 to 34 billion years could be calculated for individual specimens. Dates in excess of the age of the earth (4.6 x 109 years) are obviously not acceptable. A possible explanation for the scatter of points on the isochron diagram is that these rocks may have been variously enriched in radiogenic 87Sr which might have been derived from the adjacent granite and gneiss during Mesozoic metamorphism. These results indicate that even total-rock systems may be open during metamorphism and may have their isotopic systems changed, making it impossible to determine their geologic age." p. 102 "All of the above conclusions regarding the suitability for dating of rocks and minerals apply only when the rocks or their minerals have not been altered by chemical weathering at or near the surface of the Earth. Because most rocks that are used for dating are usually collected from outcrops, the effects of chemical weathering on the 87Rb-87Sr decay scheme may be important." p. 102 Gentry, Robert V., et al., "Radiohalos in Coalified Wood: New Evidence Relating to the Time of Uranium Introduction and Coalification," Science, vol. 194 (October 15, 1976), pp. 315-318. "Abstract. The discovery of embryonic halos around uranium-rich sites that exhibit very high 238U/206Pb ratios suggests that uranium introduction may have occurred far more recently than previously supposed. The discovery of 210PO Halos derived from uranium daughters, some elliptical in shape, further suggests that uranium-daughter infiltration occurred prior to coalification when the radionuclide transport rate was relatively high and the matrix still plastically deformable." p. 315 "Such extraordinary values admit the possibility that both the initial U infiltration and coalification could possibly have occurred with the past several thousand years." pp. 316-317 "Since it seems clear that the U radiocenters formed during the initial introduction of U and if this were as long ago as the Triassic or Jurassic are generally thought to be, then there should be evident not only fully developed, but overexposed U halos as well." p. 317 "If remobilization is not the explanation, then these ratios raise some crucial questions about the validity of present concepts regarding the antiquity of these geological formations and about the time required for coalification." p. 317 Hayatsu, A., "K-Ar Isochron Age of the North Mountain Basalt, Nova Scotia," Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, vol. 16 (April 1979), pp. 973-975. "In conventional interpretation of K-Ar age data, it is common to discard ages which are substantially too high or too low compared with the rest of the group or with other available data such as the geological time scale. The discrepancies between the rejected and the accepted are arbitrarily attributed to excess or loss of argon." p. 974 Jueneman, Frederic B., "Secular Catastrophism," Industrial Research and Development (June 1982) "The age of our globe is presently thought to be some 4.5 billion years, based on radiodecay rates of uranium and thorium. Such 'confirmation' may be short-lived, as nature is not to be discovered quite so easily. There has been in recent years the horrible realization that radiodecay rates are not as constant as previously thought, nor are they immune to environmental influences. And this could mean that the atomic clocks are reset during some global disaster, and events which brought the Mesozoic to a close may not be 65 million years ago but, rather, within the age and memory of man. "The mechanism for resetting such nuclear clocks is not clear, but knowledge has never really stood in our way in the quest for ignorance. Meanwhile, such prehistoric 'creatures' as Nessie from Loch Ness or Champ from Lake Champlain, as well as others, may not be avatars at all, but survivors from the last catastrophe. "Even as we." p. 21 Macdougall, J. D., "Fission-Track Dating," Scientific American, vol. 235 (December 1976), pp. 114-122. Macdougall was Associate Professor of Geological Research, Scripps Institute, UCSD. "Uranium 238 is the only significant producer of tracks in terrestrial rocks and in natural and man-made glasses." p. 115 "The fourth assumption presupposes that the concentration of uranium in any specimen has remained constant over the specimen's lifetime. A combination of elevated temperatures and ground-water percolation can leach away a proportion of the uranium present in rock crystals. The mobility of the uranium is such that as one part of a rock formation is being impoverished another part can become abnormally enriched. Such changes can also take place at relatively low temperatures." p. 118 Stansfield, William D., The Science of Evolution (New York: Macmillan, 1977), 614 pp. Stansfield was at the University of California, Santa Barbara. "Several methods have been devised for estimating the age of the earth and its layers of rocks. These methods rely heavily on the assumption of uniformitarianism, i.e., natural processes have proceeded at relatively constant rates throughout the earth's history." p. 80 "It is obvious that radiometric techniques may not be the absolute dating methods that they are claimed to be. Age estimates on a given geological stratum by different radiometric methods are often quite different (sometimes by hundreds of millions of years). There is no absolutely reliable long-term radiological 'clock.'" p. 84
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03-26-2002, 06:01 PM | #230 | |
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03-26-2002, 06:30 PM | #231 |
The Rogue Elf
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You want to see everything wrong with the bible? Go to The Skeptic's Annotated Bible.
Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 06:47 PM. |
03-26-2002, 06:39 PM | #232 |
Elf Lord
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That's a rather dangerous thing to say and likely to make people upset. I'd be more mild in the future, flame wars begin like this.
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03-26-2002, 06:42 PM | #233 | |||
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That's all I feel like explaining now.
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Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE Last edited by Khadrane : 03-26-2002 at 06:46 PM. |
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03-26-2002, 06:50 PM | #234 | |
The Rogue Elf
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Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 06:52 PM. |
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03-26-2002, 06:51 PM | #235 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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03-26-2002, 06:56 PM | #236 |
Elven Warrior
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I read over a good part of it. I found it rather offensive, and full of holes all over the place. Just reading over the inconsistancy section. I will cover just a few, more can be provieded as needed. First of all the supposed inconsistancy with the light. Light was created first. It doesn't say where this light came from. God can create light out of nowhere if he wants to. maybe that was him jsut creating all of the components, all jumbled together. Then he later sepparates them out, and a few days later forms them into sun, moon, and other heavenly bodies. A good part of the other things are assuming evolution, which still hasn't been proved yet. One theory on the firmament is that there was a layer of water in the atmosphere which was later lost as it fell during the flood. The flood also acounts for a lot of geological formations. I can provide more on that if anybody wants.
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03-26-2002, 07:00 PM | #237 | |
The Rogue Elf
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03-26-2002, 07:03 PM | #238 | |
Elf Lord
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And Twilight, do talk more about the flood!
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Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end. -Legolas FRODO LIVES! ABORTION IS HOMICIDE |
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03-26-2002, 07:05 PM | #239 |
Elven Warrior
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Yes, humans did write the Bible, but what they wrote is all divinely inspired. Yes, certain things do seem cruel, but look at the justuice behind it as well.
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03-26-2002, 07:15 PM | #240 | |
The Rogue Elf
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Where's the justice in giving your two virgin daughters to a band of robbers to do what they want with them? Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-26-2002 at 07:20 PM. |
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