05-19-2002, 01:54 PM | #221 |
Elven Warrior
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I have pretty much empirical data but I had to train myself for a few years to be able to understand it, and I;m really good at specializing at doing things. For most intents and purposes unless you take an inordinant amount of time to study it you'll just have to take my word for it . I know that sounds pretty bad but it is hard enough trying to show it to someone when I can point out examples, but it's almost impossible to explain like this. Plus I don't have my 150 page dissertation and my English teacher still has my 10-page essay which I never typed up since it used a lot of elvish i it and I didn't have a Tengwar font at the time. Sorry
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05-19-2002, 03:07 PM | #222 |
Hoplite Nomad
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In that case i don't think you'll mind if i stay doubtful
actually i don't think i'd like either one. they are two VERY high maintence women. and they married the 1st and 2nd most noble/powerful men in ME if they were the same personally but low maintence i'd be torn eowyn would be cool cause she'd be up for adventure however she is bit of an ice maiden and i don't think a sensitive male would be suffered by her. ( maybe she softened up in the houses of the healing) arwen is stunning but a house body but also willing to sacrifice all for love ( immortality for mortality) one could find comfort in her arms at this point in my life i would choose low maintaince arwen ( i still like the character of eowyn better
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
05-19-2002, 10:33 PM | #223 |
Elf Lord
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Whooo......
Anti feminest, arnt U? |
05-19-2002, 10:41 PM | #224 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Also... Eowyn an ice maiden? She was pretty hot for Aragorn.. And, she warmed up to Faramir.. I think I've wandered astray..
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05-19-2002, 11:57 PM | #225 | |
the Shrike
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Quote:
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05-20-2002, 02:22 PM | #226 |
Elf Lord
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Yeah, I think Faramir wasn't the strongest man after Aragorn. There was Eomer and we can't say who was stronger, Eomer or Faramir. I think that Faramir wasn't stronger then Eomer, maybe smarter then Eomer.
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05-20-2002, 04:53 PM | #227 | ||||
Hoplite Nomad
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Quote:
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AS FOR FARAMIR 1) eowyn notes that NO man in her country could match him in arms 2) eomer is a middle man. The blood of Numenor is strong within Faramir giving him greater powers of mind and flesh 3) third powerful is not relagated soley to physical might. He is the steward of the reunited kingdom. aragorn's #1 man. You also for get that the blood of elves and numenor flow through the lords of dol amorth faramirs mom was imrahil's sister so faramir has CLOSER elven blood in his veins than even Aragorn. ( imrazor the numenorean and mithrellas) i like eomer however he is not faramir's match in arms, mind, or nobility eowyn says so herself Quote:
it is not a necessary or sufficent link that because she likes aragorn that she i not an ice maiden. I don't think someone would would describe her as a person who is full of warmth, tenderness and compassion. who gushes over sappy stuff. the same with faramir being attracted to someone does not mean that they still not reserved emotionally. as a bad example margarent thatcher was married but i don't think you call her anything but an ice maiden
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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05-20-2002, 07:54 PM | #228 |
Elven Warrior
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Now who's on the defenssive?
Anyway, you are correct in that Faramir could probably whoop Eomer. Now we need another thing to argue about... Eowyn being an ice maiden? of course I don't really care since I am an Arwen fan...
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05-20-2002, 09:32 PM | #229 | |||
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wula g
I am still quite unconvinced about your ideas Quote:
yes it does sound pretty bad Quote:
Quote:
others have stated their points so what are yours
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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05-20-2002, 09:40 PM | #230 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
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I would agree that Eowyn would be an ice maiden; and partly because her main reason for liking Aragorn is an escape. . .not that I blame her!
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05-21-2002, 01:20 PM | #231 |
Elven Warrior
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Eowyn has hardened herself to teh world and so I guess that is your definition of an "ice maiden"
How am I supposed to explain something without having examples that I can point out? Maybe if you went to my school...even though there are no other mooters around...
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05-21-2002, 03:59 PM | #232 | |
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Quote:
you can describe in detail even though it will only be hearsay it will at least clarify
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. |
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05-21-2002, 04:16 PM | #233 |
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There is lots of deep discussion here on the two ladies of the Lord of the Rings. Being that this is the Books Forum, I would give Eowyn the credit for being determined and of having a deathwish of sorts. her infatuation with Aragorn at the Paths of the Dead was that she saw a way out of her life at home. For Theoden gave rule to her of the people left at home, and she shunned the responsibility to go off and fight. She may have had an infatuation for Aragorn, but it was Faramir who touched her heart in the end.
Is there really any discussion from the books the actual story of Arwen? If you include the Appendix telling of their betrothal, then yes, and at the time of Aragorn's meeting of Eowyn, he was in his honor already a married man. Who knows, being a mortal man, seeing Eowyn itn the sun he may have had a passing thought of 'what if...'
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05-23-2002, 12:04 PM | #234 |
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there waqs some implicit characterization of Arwen and of the relationship between her and Aragorn at Lothlorien, where Aragorn has a flashback and says "Arwen vanimelda, Namarie" and it actually says his feelings too.
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06-20-2002, 03:25 PM | #235 |
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Mmmm...Eowyn, definitley. So many good arguments have already been made, all of them I can empathize with...
1) Eowyn didn't just sit around, waiting for a messenger to come back and say, "Oh, by the way, your uncle's been killed, he says bye." "Good boy, here's a quarter, well, I'm off to start digging his funeral mound." 2) Her story is beautiful, and easier to empathize with that the 'We're-holier-than-thou-we-were-born-first-you-are-all-scum-the-Valar-like-us-best-we-live-forever-our-ears-are-cooler-than-yours-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha' Elves: Her parents die, then her uncle is weakned by someone who lusts after her, and then, spurned on by unrequited love and the thought of her object of affection dying pointlessly, she takes it upon herself to abandon all rationality and die gloriously (if I remember correctly, one of her greatest fears was that she would fade to nothingness, which, sadly enough, she did in the end anyway). Though I must say, I do beleive she and Faramir could have taken it a bit more slowly. And I HATED how she gave up her sword to become a healer...and Tolkien could at LEAST have graced us with the date of her death. Arwen...we never hear anything about her life, or are given any really good reason to empathize with her 'situation'. How can I empathize with someone I know nothing about? Ok, granted the part where she goes off to Lorien to die alone is beautifully sad, but that's about all. As for Eowyn being an 'ice maiden'? Aragorn himself talks about her being a lily touched by frost. So, I suppose she did have to harden herself to the world around her, and the world didn't exactly help her: as Gandalf said, to her, her place in the world seemed to be growing less and less each day. I know I would become pretty frosty, to hide my depression that I had no purpose, if nothing else.
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06-21-2002, 06:26 PM | #236 |
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Slow doun
That's OK .
Eowyn may be a pretty & brave woman, but there is a problem with her. She can't get through her fillings. You see, she's strong (mean her body) but she's weak (mean her soul)
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06-21-2002, 06:43 PM | #237 | |
Elf Lord
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Re: Slow doun
Quote:
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06-21-2002, 06:47 PM | #238 |
the Shrike
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I'm thinking her death wish here for some reason.
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06-21-2002, 06:51 PM | #239 |
Elf Lord
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Many of the greatest warriors were a bit crazed and/or suicidal(i.e. Turin Turambar) .. but they weren't considered weak of soul..
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06-22-2002, 12:03 AM | #240 |
Elf Lord
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Well,Eowyn is like:Faramir im giving up my hopes and dreams cause u said i was pretty and cuz Aragorn will never love me.
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