04-10-2007, 12:24 AM | #221 | ||
Elf Lord
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I agreed with the content of that message, but I wonder whether he would have given it or not if he hadn't known that almost the whole congregation was left-leaning like him . Quote:
Abortion is the most crucial moral issue facing our country, from my perspective, and is far more important than poverty.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-10-2007 at 12:42 AM. |
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04-10-2007, 09:42 AM | #222 | |||||
Elf Lord
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Let's see.
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[/QUOTE]I just think it's far murkier and more complex than your definition allows. [/QUOTE] or yours. Quote:
We don't have all that many direct quotes from Jesus, but I'm not familier with any that run, " Those poor people aren't going to heaven." and I thought that was the point. In the Christian view, life on earth sux. It's Satan's dominion. Man is punished for Adam's Sin. Your hope lies in the Law, and in the Promise of Salvation through Jesus Christ. And although Christians are encouraged to treat EVERYONE well, including heathens and moneylenders ("not poor") the emphasis on "good works to the poor" is specifically contested by Jesus. That's far more standard in Judaic thought. He wants your mind on HIM. Quote:
Have you heard of 'The Potato Famines'? Ireland had become dependent on a single crop, and when the crop failed, they starved. But that's what we still encourage. There's more damage being done to the planet due to our methods of agriculture than the nearest chemical plant, these days. And more hunger created due to what we eat. Quote:
[QUOTE]And a good deal of exploitation. The increase in help tends to largely be the result of globalization and the increase of technology, though. If historical wealthy nations could have reached all the poor nations, they might well have given to them. The Church in the Medieval Ages felt it had a responsibility to give to the poor, and in a lot of cases it did. Monasteries certainly did, though perhaps that changed around the 13th or 14th centuries some (I'm not sure if any change occurred there; just guessing because the monasteries became more opulent around then). There has always been both exploitation and giving. Humans haven't really changed. It's just technology that has changed. That is a fair point. Technology, IMO, is the cause of this. But technology also is producing major disasters right now, like Global Warming, and the great risk of WMDs, the destruction of our fresh water through pesticides and other pollutants, and the destruction of our oceans. Humans are at least as selfish as they ever were. I just can't see this IMO idealized view of human nature at all, when I look at history or modern times. [/Quote ]Covered that. Quote:
But the whole world enjoyed the 'benefit" of building a lot of plants to make airplanes and weapons to shoot at each other. War is good for business. Ask Halliburton. |
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04-10-2007, 05:16 PM | #223 | ||||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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My great political dream is to somehow find the right third-party for me, but in the meantime, I shall be a Democrat. Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 04-10-2007 at 05:24 PM. |
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04-10-2007, 05:26 PM | #224 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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04-10-2007, 05:26 PM | #225 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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04-10-2007, 05:32 PM | #226 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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Come now Gwai, the Reps are sliding morally...but the Democrats are completely off the board. You want to talk about morally bankrupt, those guys couldn't get a loan from Satan himself. You want to help the poor? Give them your clothes, your car, and your books. It isn't a "right" to be helped the Gov't.
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04-10-2007, 05:35 PM | #227 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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But it's a wrong to not help. And I do. It's not a question of "rights", but of what is right and what is wrong. It is right to help those in need.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
04-10-2007, 05:38 PM | #228 | |
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It's easy for the Gov't to "help" people, because it isn't their money that they use. But money isn't what ultimately helps a person become un-poor, it's a job that they hold. I AM in favor of welfare for these types of people, because it helps transition them into a more stable financial situation.
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04-10-2007, 05:42 PM | #229 | ||
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BUT there is quite a divide among catholics as to coservatives/liberals. Quote:
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04-10-2007, 05:47 PM | #230 | |
Elf Lord
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I pay more taxes than you do, hector.
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If the government stops sending MY money to support US wars of aggression, you can keep whatever of your change they're spending on a social safety net. Okay? |
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04-10-2007, 05:49 PM | #231 | ||
Elf Lord
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I would approve of wellfare being given based on need. For example, there should be the questions of whether or not the person is a single parent, whether or not the person is disabled, things like that. Those should be considered. In some cases, a constant stream of wellfare is good. In cases where the person is able-bodied and capable, though, a more limited wellfare should exist where the person is given aid on a temporary basis. That provides motivation for the person to find a job and actually give back to society. I think that that's what we have right now, and I approve of that system. Quote:
Republicans haven't yet had sufficient power in the Supreme Court to overthrow Roe vs. Wade. States where Republicans dominate are far less likely to create laws allowing abortion or homosexual marriage.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-10-2007 at 05:52 PM. |
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04-10-2007, 05:54 PM | #232 | |
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How about this, we give gay marriage in exchange for banning abortion. Going on about what government programs do: look at the prime example in recent times, Walter Reed Hospital. Private ownership begets care, because they want business, and they want to stay in business. Government ownership begets sloppiness, because they are business, they set the business standards, and if you don't like it (and if it doesn't work), chances are they don't care. People think the Government is more capable just because it is more "official", and they can somehow "reach farther" to help more. In reality there isn't anything as far as taking care of the poor, setting up good hospitals that the private sector can't do better. Oh yeah, thats Democrats for you, and an increasing number of Republicans. Bi-partisanship, eh?
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04-10-2007, 05:57 PM | #233 | |
Elf Lord
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Not at all, the word "contesting" applies
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8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2 So, while Jesus believed, as any observant Jew would, that good works were good and necessary, Paul challenged that as the central issue for Christians. |
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04-10-2007, 05:59 PM | #234 | |
Elf Lord
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Nope,
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04-10-2007, 06:03 PM | #235 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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04-10-2007, 06:10 PM | #236 | |
Elf Lord
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LOL. The problem exposed.
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04-10-2007, 06:10 PM | #237 |
Cardboard Harp of Gondor Join Date: Sep 2001
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I would oppose that idea rather strongly, since I hope to adopt some day .
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04-10-2007, 06:13 PM | #238 | |
Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008
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*submits hand to Tessar* I admire you
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04-10-2007, 06:16 PM | #239 | |||
Elf Lord
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Quote:
Quote:
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__________________
If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 04-10-2007 at 06:17 PM. |
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04-10-2007, 06:24 PM | #240 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Um, the problem would be, hector,
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I don't care whether adoptive parents make the news...I care that kids get good families. And Gay families ARE good families. |
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