03-27-2006, 04:39 PM | #221 | ||
An enigma in a conundrum
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It's the same as "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound". We could go on, like Zen Koans but I think the point of view has been understood. Quote:
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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03-27-2006, 04:45 PM | #222 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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We call something "true" because it appears to us to be consistant. This does not mean that it is consistant. The history of science has show us many times that something can appear to be one thing and later be seen quite differently.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-27-2006, 04:52 PM | #223 |
Elf Lord
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You appear to be living dangerously Lief...
then you shout in Spock's ear as he takes a teacup break .... one thing you certainly are not, my friend is a philosopher ... Edited by Moderator for Content Last edited by Spock : 03-27-2006 at 05:00 PM. Reason: baiting-against Moot Rules |
03-27-2006, 04:53 PM | #224 | ||||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 04:55 PM | #225 |
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I just disagreed with you and explained why. Politely too .
Edited by Moderator-Content
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Spock : 03-27-2006 at 05:02 PM. Reason: baiting-violation of Moot Rules |
03-27-2006, 04:59 PM | #226 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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1. BB & BJ
Let's NOT start anything which could be against the rules. 2. Without humans, conscious or not, nothing can be debated and therefore BJ does have the correct deductions from theory. Now if anyone on this board is NOT human, then they can say what all this would be to them; we are discussing what a persons mind tells them and without people, no one on this board or elsewhere could debate anything.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
03-27-2006, 05:02 PM | #227 | ||
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*Wanders around, feeling rational and a little silly.* EDIT: Spock, what precisely does "baiting" mean on Entmoot? Neither Butterbeer nor me was intentionally baiting the other, and I don't think either of us was at all mad either.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-27-2006 at 05:05 PM. |
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03-27-2006, 05:04 PM | #228 | |
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LIEF
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this may be the way in any pigeon debate- but it will not hold no water on any serious Philosophical examination. It appears that the definition of truth you attribute is not agreed to be universally acceptable. If you wish to debate then you must decide sir what it is you wish to debate, rather than muddy the waters with unclear, contentious and without these unclear premises being based upon your arguments on equally debatable ground such as your proposed concept of the nature of truth. |
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03-27-2006, 05:07 PM | #229 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
03-27-2006, 05:09 PM | #230 | |||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 05:10 PM | #231 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-27-2006, 05:12 PM | #232 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 05:12 PM | #233 | |
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-27-2006, 05:16 PM | #234 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 05:18 PM | #235 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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We have to be careful to keep Philosopy separate from religion. You can discuss religious theory, belief and moral ideals in other threads.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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03-27-2006, 05:20 PM | #236 |
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They are highly entwined, though. I couldn't possibly respond to brownjenkins properly without getting into it. Hmm. Should this side of the discussion be moved to the Theology thread too, you think? I personally don't really think so, because it's all so, so philosophy enmeshed. But the decision is yours, Spock.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 05:22 PM | #237 | |
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Lief:
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but i haven't yet even got to your (first - i think???) post Lief - and yet above we see the chaos it has created already by unilaterally defining truth - you just simply cannot do that if you want a philosophical debate- otherwise it just becomes - well pointless. If you wish to discuss the nature of truth, or put forward for consideration the principle of a universal truth underpinning all reality and all our perception or intellect, then so so - but do not - please- take your fellow debaters so lowly in your opinion that you feel you can just on a whimsy slip this concept unilaterally in! If that is what you wish to debate, then fine, table it -but you cannot in any philosophical debate just throw it in as a given... for one it is insulting to other debators and for two it muddies the waters of the current debate. The very nature if not close to any normal definition of debate implies more than a one way diatribe. Debate, Lief, implies agreement of purpose and an openess to ideas and the interaction of more than one person - if you wish to unilaterally define our framework by loading the debate so early on, does it not rather rail against the very principle of debate? Best, BB |
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03-27-2006, 05:24 PM | #238 | |
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But this is basically the foundation of why religious belief systems tend to cause so much conflict. It is because they attempt to impose a certain conformity on humanity that simply doesn't exist in practice. The most successful are the ones that stick to a very basic and near-universal morality, which casual christianity does fairly well in practice. But, even so, in extreme cases, like war, it gets messy, because no simple rule can cover all situations.
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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03-27-2006, 05:25 PM | #239 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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If it is an occasional reference and not a statement of theology, then it's fine here.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Last edited by Spock : 03-27-2006 at 05:27 PM. |
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03-27-2006, 05:34 PM | #240 |
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we decide then Lief, our thoughts, our perceptions, our theories, our very philosophy on the basis of ...
a Dictionary ??? yes - religion and beleif will always be to a degree entwined- but unless you are so feeble in your own thoughts here that there is an overriding need to just at the first opportunity turn to religious doctrine to discuss your own ideas on the world, mankind, reality and -here's the point Lief - philiosphy - then i resent quite seriously you attempting to move this to theology - this sir, is the philosophy thread! I for one wish to stay here and discuss philosophy as we were here in the philosophy thread. Not an unreasonable request really Please decide, my friend ..if you are capable of that without seriously turning it into a theological debate. Of course, i know you have strong beleifs and i respect you for them and yes they are entwined- but then you must decide if it is at all possible for you to actually discuss philosophy, Lief! best, BB |
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