03-28-2002, 07:18 PM | #221 |
The Insufferable
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God created light, not light sources.
So, if when he said 'let there be light', he filled the entire universe.
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03-28-2002, 07:21 PM | #222 | ||
the Shrike
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Quote:
Quote:
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03-28-2002, 07:33 PM | #223 | |
Hoplite Nomad
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or didn't god create those? b) if he created light why create light sources c) or how is the light without light sources
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03-28-2002, 08:46 PM | #224 |
The Insufferable
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Sorry, Afro Elf. I was trying to get off the computer when I posted that:
a)God created light and not sources initially. He created the celestial bodies later. b)I don't know. But I'm glad he did. I like stars. c)The last time I checked, we weren't sure exactly what light is. So I'm not quite sure. But I imagine He could just flood the universe with photons, or light waves,or whatever.
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03-28-2002, 08:58 PM | #225 |
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I have been thinking about 60 million light year away thing. Evolutionists argue that the earth must be as old as the light from the stars is. But, I was putting myself in God's perspective.
OK, you have this cool idea for celestial objects that are really fascinating, but you can't put them really close to your civilazation or it will not allow life. But you also don't plan on leaving that civilazation around 60 million years to finally get a glimps of these awesome creations that show your power, SO you create the light in route so that your creation can see them right off. Just my reasoining on why God created light first. |
03-28-2002, 09:39 PM | #226 | |
The Insufferable
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That's what I was trying to say... thanks emplynx.
I recall hearing about some creationsist who came up with his own mathamatic origin of the universe. I believe his book was called 'starlight and time... [interrupt for google search] ... Ok. Starlight and Time by Hubert Humphreys. (what a name). Here's an article by him, regarding it. I have not read this book... I have been meaning to, and thus cannot critique it. But it seems, at first blush, to offer a more than adaquate alternative to the traditional Big Bang cosmology. I shall warily suggest that creationists read it. For evolutionists, I would like to quote this author giving a statement which quite contradicts your presuppositions. Quote:
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03-30-2002, 08:54 AM | #227 |
The Original Corruptor
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Nariel Starshine, would it be possible for you to back those characteristics up with biblical quotes?
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03-30-2002, 09:38 AM | #228 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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There is a day to deal with that contradiction afro-elf, but it isn't pretty.
1. The Sun and Moon were, some way or another physically present before Genisis, where they came from is up to you-let's say God physically made them, but is not connected with them. Therefore is a ethical montheist's worldview, they aren't "there" 2. God says "let there be light" seen as the symbol of God's connection to the physical, as light is a substance that bridges the gap between infinite and physical, it isn't "light" as in a light bulb. 3. On the fourth "day" God links the sun and moon and stars to his infiniteness-and voila on the fourth day... To see how this is found textually read the first first thus "And the WAS: In turmoil, and darkness was over the abyss"
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03-30-2002, 09:40 AM | #229 |
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afro-elf,
Your point (c) is quite interesting. Take for instance an eclipse - what happens? The sun is blocked from our vision, the light does not reach the point where the eclipse can be seen, and it becomes dark. Similarily on a night when there is heavy cloud cover and the moon is hidden, it is darker than usual. This is because even though the light emitting from the sun reflects against the moon - we just can't see the moon. It seems that the visibility of our closest celestial objects makes an impact on the amount of light that we perceive. Why would it be reasonable to believe that we would perceive ambient light if these celestial objects were entirely invisible to us? I don't think it is reasonable at all. Just imagine viewing a total eclipse while ambient light remains the same - this is the implication of light not needing sources. How would someone create light and then create the light sources later? We all know that light travels at a certain speed; how could it have traveled from nowhere? This is where God gets a chance to exhibit his omnipotence. I sometimes wonder why God would violate a "law of nature", especially when it did not involve humans... |
03-30-2002, 09:42 AM | #230 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Another interpertation is that the Hebrew word "Bara" means organize. Using the above interpertation of the pre-existing physcal world, God organized the heavens and put things in their proper places.
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03-30-2002, 09:45 AM | #231 |
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I feel that the theist viewpoint is the most logical theory of the two. My reason being that every thing in this world shortens or lengthens to an infinite value. I mean everything is made up of molecule's molecule's,atoms;atoms,subparticles;subparticles,q uarks, etc... What is the base?
Or even more confusing time... When was the first day. The Atheistic view point argues an infinite amount of days ago but you must see that this is impossible. Infinite can be defined as : a number in which any subset of that number is equal to the first. So that if I were to go back half of infinite I would still have an infinite amount of days to go. Time could never have reached present date. So we must agree that there has to be a finite number of days between now and the first existence of our dimensionsTime is a dimension so I must conclude that what ever started or instigated time lives outside of our dimensions. . To argue that the dimensions made them selves is ludicrous. I must believe there is a god
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"We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm. |
03-30-2002, 09:46 AM | #232 |
The Original Corruptor
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Is bara used in Genesis, and if so, exactly where?
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03-30-2002, 01:46 PM | #233 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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"Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve et haaretz"
A common translation: In the begininng God created the heavens and the earth.
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03-31-2002, 08:56 AM | #234 |
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Bible
but what if The Bible is just the worlds first big fantasy novel ??
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03-31-2002, 09:00 AM | #235 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Then it's a fantasy novel with more meaning and depth then LOTR, something which takes great skill.
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03-31-2002, 02:22 PM | #236 |
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Markedel,
Do you understand Genesis 1:1 as "In the beginning God organized the heavens and earth"? If so, this implies that he did not create anything, merely organized. Or is this one of those times where bara is interpreted otherwise? Last edited by Andúril : 03-31-2002 at 02:24 PM. |
03-31-2002, 04:45 PM | #237 |
'Sober' Mullet Frosh
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Actually the real point is that Bereshit means for a purpose it is composed of two hebrew words
"be" (always attached to other words) meaning for "reshit" meaning purpose The point being that Genisis is not telling us that the world was physically created by God. God certainly doesn't care what you think, and the bible is there for people to learn from. What matters is that God connected himself/organized the physical world for a purpose that he decided. This purpose is then outlined in the rest of the bible.
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04-01-2002, 02:21 PM | #238 | |
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04-01-2002, 02:33 PM | #239 |
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I guess God must exist because this thread is still open, but the anti-theist thread is closed. Hmmm...
*turns to walk away*
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04-01-2002, 05:40 PM | #240 |
Elven Warrior
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I think you are right Cirdan. This thread got opened up again first as well. I think that in the quote "God certainly doesn't care what you think..." isn't quite accurate. He cares very deeply about us and what we think. That doesn't mean that he is going to do something differantly because of what we think though.
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