11-02-2005, 05:46 PM | #221 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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11-02-2005, 06:03 PM | #222 | |||
Friendly Neigborhood Sith Lord
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BoP-anger is the path to the dark side, join me, and have lots of power and lightsaber, and very possibly kortossis armor, and maybe even a territory named after you The EMPIRE: be all i can force you to be
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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11-02-2005, 06:35 PM | #223 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Speaking of CSPAN, and on the topic of evolution and its starting point...
I have in my hands a transcript of the proceedings of the "Crawling and Flying Babies Scientific Meeting of 2005" that was recently broadcast on CSPAN99 in the wee morning hours . I'll type it in for you guys, because I think it will illustrate some points about the theory of evolution that I think are absolutely critical to this discussion. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-02-2005 at 06:42 PM. |
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11-02-2005, 07:01 PM | #224 | |
Word Santa Claus
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Ah, mockery. Just what healthy debate needs.
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And at least we try to develop tests for punctuated equilibria (what the heck is that "hopeful monsters" thing?) - unlike the ascientific theories. Rohirrim - a couple weeks is still a catastrophic event. Everything I said still applies. To leave those well-developed layers would take centuries at the very fastest possible movement, and more likely even longer given how much is exposed.
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Sufficient to have stood, yet free to fall. Last edited by Count Comfect : 11-02-2005 at 07:05 PM. |
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11-02-2005, 08:11 PM | #225 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Yes, you've found a weak point (I just sat down and wrote it off the top of my head, and realized that weak point was there, but went with it anyway). I hope to start discussions tonight on it. The "hopeful monsters" thing is an idea that some leading evolutionists have put forth - try a google on it
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-02-2005 at 08:13 PM. |
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11-03-2005, 05:00 AM | #226 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords Last edited by BeardofPants : 11-03-2005 at 03:30 PM. |
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11-03-2005, 11:20 AM | #227 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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that said, i think it's pretty clear that no one is going to change their mind about how the world was created, so no need to further abuse that dead horse i've tried to address what is an isn't science, and even suggested ways both could be included in the educational system without stepping on each other's toes... but some people don't seem to be able to even make that much of a compromise i'd really like to hear some comments on a question i've already raised twice, but have yet to receive a comment about from the non-evolution types: here is the link again i dare you
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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11-03-2005, 11:31 AM | #228 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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I think it's fair to say that non-action on your suggestion indicates a lack of interest by participating members.
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-03-2005, 11:51 AM | #229 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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It might indicate that, but it's not true in my case. I remain very interested in the topic. However, I've been at least 3 exhausting rounds on this subject during my Entmoot life, and I just can't seem to get in gear for this round. And I can't remember how to show who has the most posts in a thread (how do you do that?) but I think it's a pretty safe bet that it's me, given that until now, I've been the principle poster for the creationist side.
I'm pretty free today, and my goal is to address brownie's link and Nurvi's request. And Count's post. And the Spaghetti monster post. And BoP's post. and ... and ... I need a very strong cup of tea!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-03-2005, 11:55 AM | #230 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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brownie - I just scannedthrough about half of it - three questions for you:
1. Have you read it? 2. What do you think of its validity? (i.e., any good points IYO?) 3. What aspect would you like comment on?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-03-2005, 11:56 AM | #231 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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11-03-2005, 12:23 PM | #232 | |||||
Advocatus Diaboli
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i think people get way too hung up on what is right and what is wrong (on both sides)... right and wrong is not the point... the point is thought processes... science teachs students first and foremost to approach issues from a analytical pov... religion teaches people to approach issues from a philosophical pov... both are valid, and useful... but when you mix the two, you diminish both Quote:
here's a good part though... i think it addresses what i see as the biggest issue i have with those who insist upon biblical literism... the fear that somehow christianity is invalid if the earth is in fact billions of years old... or if human beings were once ape-like creatures Quote:
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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11-03-2005, 02:36 PM | #233 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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To anyone that doesn't like this thread or this discussion: please go start one that you DO like! If I find your subject boring, I won't post on your thread, and I won't complain about the existence of your thread, either.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-03-2005 at 02:38 PM. |
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11-03-2005, 02:53 PM | #234 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And biological evolution and chemical evolution are even more tightly related than my example above. For example, let's pretend we have some wonderfully talented and consciencious chemical evolution scientists, and they get to do all the experiments they wanted to, and re-did some ones that were already done and found flaws. If they issue a statement like this: "After 10 years of rigorous study and new experiments, and re-doing of past experiments, we have come to the conclusion that we may scientifically conclude that to the best of our knowledge, the likelihood of abiogenesis occuring is basically zero, and NOT as likely as we used to think it was", then you can BET that the biological evolutionists will think it is relevant to them, for the result of abiogenesis is the starting point for their field. The geologist trying to make gold, however, won't care. Do you see what I mean? That was one of the points I was trying to make with the flying baby example. Biological evolution takes as its starting point the one-celled prototype, and it is VERY important to the theory how likely it is that the one-celled prototype might exist. I mean, I could say that given the starting point of flying babies, that it is entirely reasonable that a baby can fly over the Atlantic Ocean, and my deduction would be valid. But I doubt if you would grant me my starting point! Biological evolution has as its starting point a one-celled prototype thing, and I think the likelihood of it even existing is a very reasonable thing to consider. What say ye?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-03-2005 at 02:56 PM. |
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11-03-2005, 02:53 PM | #235 | |||
An enigma in a conundrum
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But then you've already admitted: Quote:
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11-03-2005, 03:19 PM | #236 |
Quasi Evil
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No they have nothing to do with each other. No more so then oceanographers need to be highly concerned about where all the water came from to begin with. Thats a completely seperate subject. The fact is its here (the water for the oceanographer and life for the evolutionary biologist) and evolution is the best theory we currently have to explain how life has progressed. How it got there doesnt effect that fact one bit.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
11-03-2005, 03:27 PM | #237 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Star Trek IV- The Voyage Home - 1986
"Admiral, there be whales here."
I just couldn't resist
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
11-03-2005, 03:34 PM | #238 | |
the Shrike
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Spock, I realised that I flame-baited him, but god, is anyone getting annoyed at this repetitive force-fad they keep posting on all the threads?
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11-03-2005, 03:38 PM | #239 | |
the Shrike
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"Binary solo! 0000001! 00000011! 0000001! 00000011!" ~ The Humans are Dead, Flight of the Conchords |
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11-03-2005, 03:52 PM | #240 |
Quasi Evil
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Well personally Im a glutton for punishment.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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