11-02-2005, 09:43 AM | #221 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
I have to get off line now, but quickly, I don't see why the Nazgul would know pretty much for sure that Val doesn't have the One Ring. I think it's a good plot line to keep, and a very reasonable one, too. I'd say just have Val make some comments about it that can be taken several ways. There is NO reason that I can see for the Nazgul to have concluded that he doesn't have it, unless I missed something
I've probably gone overboard with the innuendo - it is funny! - but will back off now.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-02-2005, 09:47 AM | #222 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
(ps - Rian isn't paired with Tyaron yet - she's going to have second thoughts when she gets around humans again. And I don't know what Earniel is going to do with any attention Alagos may pay her, or what level of attention he may pay her. Don't order the wedding cake yet!)
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-02-2005, 10:36 AM | #223 |
High King at Annuminas Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming - USA
Posts: 10,752
|
Oh - one more thing on the mental powers.
Perhaps I was the first one to make use of them in the game itself - but the intro already had spelled out that the Nazgul had some pretty extensive mind powers. It was in response to this that I developed a character who was first conceived as just an advisor - and someone sent by the queen mother to keep the young king out of trouble - into what became Oreturion. I did it because I felt like Valandil would need some support like this if he was going to survive the powers that had already been described for the Nazgul. Oreturion, though not of royal bloodlines - could be thought of as someone like Denethor - one in whom the race of Numenor ran nearly true (or however Tolkien states it - and remember how 'sparks flew' between him and Gandalf the one time?). I think Oreturion's abilities would be exemplary among men - he was probably, at this time, the most powerful in this area among mortal Men - since Elendil, Isildur and Anarion were no more and Valandil had not quite surpassed him yet.
__________________
My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!! Last edited by Valandil : 11-02-2005 at 10:38 AM. |
11-02-2005, 10:47 AM | #224 | |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Quote:
I gather your replies to my questionnaire are no, no and yes? What is really wrong with you, Val? Yes, the King's position is precarious. But more is the fun. Can't you just think of some counter-plots and counter-measures? |
|
11-02-2005, 11:36 AM | #225 | |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 796
|
Quote:
2.yes 3. probably, yes. So, the maid is still dangerous for us. She should be dealt with. |
|
11-02-2005, 11:48 AM | #226 |
Shape-shifting, men-grabbing NAZGUL
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 796
|
I think Val's main problem is that in this RPG layout he is left practically alone without supporters. He can take counsil only with himself. He plays his main counselors himself. Shah plays Ray and Marty, but practically Ray is so besotted with Viv, that he has no time or concern for his King. Marty has other interests now. Rian is completely absorbed in her family-love life. Earniel is the only one to whom he might turn, but it seems she herself is getting otherwise attracted. Even Annawen has forsaken the King.
(Speaking of that what fun will there be now in Commerce class?) I believe the game would be much more attractive to Val if he had someone to plot with, another player, not another of his characters. We need another player for the Good side. Perhaps his mother might come to check on him? Whatever. What do you think about it, Val? |
11-02-2005, 11:59 AM | #227 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Rian has been "completely absorbed in her family love-life" for ONE NIGHT (albeit a lot of posts!) and is looking forward VERY MUCH to starting classes in the morning, and I somehow have a VERY strong feeling she'll be in a study group with Val and Earniel and some others.
I can't WAIT for Commerce to start! I think it will be a blast!!!!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-02-2005 at 12:01 PM. |
11-02-2005, 12:06 PM | #228 | |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Quote:
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
|
11-02-2005, 01:01 PM | #229 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a Field of Giant Daisies.
Posts: 821
|
Quote:
__________________
"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
|
11-02-2005, 01:04 PM | #230 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
OK, here's my answers to Gordis' three questions:
1. Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to DELETE FOREVER ALL MEMORIES OF THE NIGHT from Melwen's mind? No. I think a more reasonable and accurate take on this ability, based upon my familiarity with Tolkien, would be that he could temporarily confuse her, but the memory would eventually work its way back. And with a bop on the head followed by simple verbal suggestions coming from multiple sources that are "in" on the deception, a great deal could be done to convince her that the thing never happened, and by the time the memory started coming back, she would most likely put it down to the confusion of a concussion. 2.Do you believe and accept that Khamul was able to heal the effects of Black Breath ENTIRELY? I think that altho there might be some slight "residue" left over (they're kind of tired and shaky), that for the most part he could do this. 3. Can others (e.g. Oreturion) tamper with her brain and make her remember the night? Yes, somewhat, because I look upon the power described in the #1 question as a kind of illness/injury that is inflicted, and anyone that is a healer could therefore "heal" it to varying degrees and the memory would come back faster than if it was left to "heal" on its own. Now I would like to add one more question for the group, because for me, it's the most important one to be discussed: 4. Do you believe and accept that certain people can implant thoughts in another person's mind that impels them to do something, either in accord or out of accord with what they would naturally do? General comments - There's a saying that I heard that goes like this: "take what you want, and then PAY for it!" My general feeling is that we're seeing a lot of "taking", but no "paying", with incidents like the Melwen incident (mainly the thought-implant part). From how it is currently written, I see NO reason why Khamul and the others can't just do this type of thing at ANY time, ANY place, ALL day long, without ANY problem whatsoever, and without ANY cost to themselves. And that just doesn't ring true to me. Tyaron might be a good swordsman, and able to beat most men in a fight, but as he fights, he pays a price: he starts to tire, and he is in danger of incurring an injury, etc. I'd like to see the same concept here - maybe they can do these things only so often, and then they have to wait to build up some more power again or something? Or they can only do it in ways that might catch attention, so they can't just do it in public - they would have to lure the person into a dark alley or something. Anyway, SOME type of price. In general, I think the concept of free will is vital to JRRT's works. I quoted JRRT himself on this, and the very fact that JRRT has Iluvatar Himself (for the most part) not interfering with free will is pretty telling, I think. So another "check" that we might put on this ability is that its strength is in direct proportion to how much the person would actually WANT to do this thing, anyway, and it wears off over time just like an illness or injury "heals". Anyway, those are my thoughts, and I look forward to hearing other people's thoughts.
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-02-2005, 01:06 PM | #231 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Quote:
I also have a strong feeling that Prof. Mahtaliel will be interacting with our study group ...
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
|
11-02-2005, 01:08 PM | #232 |
Warrior of the House of Hador
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,651
|
Woah. Lots of posts to read. Great posts everyone. Now for the more serious questions.
1. Nazgûl power. I do think that the Nazgûl need to have limitation. I also think that they need to vary with each different Nazgûl. The Morgul Lord being more powerful than all all in everything. Same with Khamûl yet less powerful. Then all the other seven beinghaving the same overall power, yet specialising in different areas. I will edit my post with Khamûl and Melwen. I'll have Khamûl mentally exhausted from his work, but admittting that it will wear off in time. Hours? Days? When Melwen does remember what happened, maybe an accident could ahppen. Thoughts? CS, could you also edit your Khamûl post to have him mentally exhausted. 2. Animals. I do think that most animals should fear the Nazgûl. Shah, maybe you could have Marty & Ray's horses run off in different directions because of Viv's presence? What do you think Lotesse.
__________________
Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
11-02-2005, 01:43 PM | #233 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
I will do it for Marty's horse, though he wont run off entirely. Volricom has already had Viv ride around on him, adn it would be a royal pain in the ass to go back to 4 of my posts and some of Lotesse's posts to edit that.
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
11-02-2005, 03:24 PM | #234 | ||
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
Quote:
And as we are currently discussing nazgul powers and limitations here is: Quote:
|
||
11-02-2005, 04:05 PM | #235 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Gordis - I also had him only climbing up a "few feet"
(on purpose!) We will beware in the dark! But be careful what you quote because we're not using everything that you just quoted in this rpg, right? Like "we can feel their presence" and "it troubled our hearts" (although actually I think some of our elves have had a vague, undefined disquiet feeling on occasion, IIRC. I don't think any humans had that feeling, though; right?). I would like to see some more of the "smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it" thing, though - it would be interesting to see the Nazgul be around people and battle that. I've seen something like that with the "elf-stench" thing and thought it was good!
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by RÃan : 11-02-2005 at 04:08 PM. |
11-02-2005, 04:13 PM | #236 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
|
Guys, I hate to nag, but I really think this discussion about getting some things straight will vastly improve the quality of the rpg, so I"d like to support the "other side" for a moment and ask pretty please that you guys don't start editing posts yet or have animals running away from Nazgul yet until we've come to an agreement. [/nag]
please don't get upset at me
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
11-02-2005, 04:19 PM | #237 |
The Black Númenórean
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,773
|
Mad? Nah, I like you too much to be mad. I support Rian and the other side as well (for the moment)!
EDIT: Nice post Gordis! I like it muchly...I feel really sorry for poor Aiwendis.
__________________
Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. Last edited by The last sane person : 11-02-2005 at 04:53 PM. |
11-02-2005, 06:01 PM | #238 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: here and there
Posts: 3,514
|
well, i ditto what shah just said... about Rian that is ... it is not a case of sides, but the rpg, as rian said.
I think it clear from both Val's and Earniel's stance that we do not go back and edit like crazy - we have to leave the animals reaction as is, but with some realism added occasionally, ... can we all agree on that? just say "yes" now i had a thought which i think fits in with some others here: it was agreed that the nazgul do not take off their rings ...because they would then be very noticeable to animals and elves and kings etc etc ... but instead utter a spell to go invisable ... now i would suggest that if the Nazgul are uttering and maintaining a spell when invisable using both the powers of a spell and their rings to help maintain this spell, that indeed will take both concentration and power up ... thus when in invisable mode they are more open to be sensed ... maybe not as fully as of the time of LOTR when sauron has their rings and has them in thrall .... but they are more suspectible to elves, animals with their keener than mortal man's senses of fear, smell, instinct etc .... thus the nazgul must be very careful when invisable ... to me this sounds both a realism we can build in, a balancer, and offers great rpg ans story oppoertunities for ALL, both naz and non naz ... ...er... now this will make you laugh , Boom has no ring and can flit between both worlds ... but he would appear a bit odd to any that sensed him when in the shadow or spirit world too! but boom ain't really the issue anyway! course, i'll go by whatever is agreed .. but do not see a problem with Boom anyway. I have pm'd Gor ref Boom and the morgul lord, and the wraith call to the north and hopefully soonish we will be all be more clear on the search for the ring, the suspicion it might even now be here in the north .. and (some) of the nazgul and wraith communities plans and musings ... hopefully this will strengthen the plot and help all in giving a clearer story-line ... hopefully too the Morgul lord will lay down the law in terms of activities that endanger their presence here and the search for the ring ... and urge more circumspection and care and less use of revealing powers that may be detected ... after all, what could be more important to all the nazgul than finding the one ring? .. either for themsleves or to stop it being eventually wielded by some great king or elf who would surely over time succumb to it - and them being enslaved anew???? If it is, as they suspect it might be, here and now in the north, it is vital to them not to screw up by indiscretion ... now that will not stop drinking, racing, loves, in-fights, arguments etc, but all the nazgul should be careful: let the maid incident drum this into them, when / if the morgul lord lays down the law in his inimitable cold and deadly fashion.... care should be taken lest one or more blow their cover ... i would like to see the captain be very strict on this and usage of powers that are suspicious ... but that is upto GOR for me, the nazgul need be in no rush, they have plenty of time, and now free from slavery to Sauron, ... for ever? do they currently think that? - maybe ... at least for ever if they can get the One! ... or at least for one of them! ... what a prize! so, they, at least the captain, are happy to bide their time, but also perhaps free and able to mix more easliy in this "free" time ... free also to enjoy themsleves a bit and with a wary eye on each other, position themselves to seek for the one ... for surely .. if one of the others gets it , they will ultimately be enslaved again! ... but no one maybe would say that in public ...??? so there may be alliances formed and broken, but over all the captain ruling with an iron fist. best all, BB Last edited by Butterbeer : 11-02-2005 at 06:02 PM. |
11-02-2005, 06:09 PM | #239 |
of the House of Fëanor
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 6,150
|
Gordis - GREAT post!! I was so excited to finally read what Ilmenzor would say. Yay!
I'm at the library right now so my time's limited, but - about those questions, I was thinking that 1:yes, the erasure of Melwen's memory would be permanent IF she did not get help from someone like an Oreturion type who could delve into her mind at HER request or with her permission of course, and retrieve the memory that way. There'd have to be a reason to do this, maybe some kind of inquest into mysterious happenings, I don't know - but a reason why it would have to be done. But if she WEREN'T helped this way, the Khamul mind-job would stay effective, indefinitely. 2: yes, Black Breath can be healed by the one who inflicted it. (But didn't BUZ give Merwen the Black Breath? So only Buz could properly heal her. Maybe she can still be sickish from it, since Khamul couldn't really do the proper healing job on her. Just brainstorming here) Earlier I was suggesting that Nazgul could heal wounds/black breath that they themselves had inflicted. Did anyone see that yesterday, when I brought that up? Can we do that? 3: yes Oreturion-types could retrieve her memories for her but ONLY if she willingly went to him, looking to do this very thing. And perhaps Oreturion could see her memory without her knowing, but only if he specifically searched her mind for particulars that may or may not have happened in the past. It's a hidden memory, not a currently occuring thought. hmmm, what else... oh yeah - I already suggested one of the horses get skittish, but not Volcirom he's already used to Viv. Does anyone read what I say here? I suggested this like 3 times, Rian.
__________________
Few people have the imagination for reality.
~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
11-02-2005, 06:14 PM | #240 |
Lady of the Ulairi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 2,783
|
BB, I got your PM and I read your post here, I agree with ALL your points. Please read my last post in the main, if you think it fits.
Please continue. You may make ML call Boom if you wish. I was vague about the call. Be back later. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Discussion Thread Number 5 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign | Serenoli | RPG Forum | 1002 | 02-24-2006 04:09 PM |
Discussion Thread Number 4 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign | The last sane person | RPG Forum | 994 | 01-04-2006 04:22 AM |
Discussion Thread number 2 Of Nazgûl-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign | Butterbeer | RPG Forum | 999 | 10-29-2005 05:43 PM |
The Lord of the Rings discussion: Chapter 1, A Long-expected Party | cassiopeia | LOTR Discussion Project | 69 | 01-27-2005 05:28 PM |
Back to Middle Earth discussion thread | ethuiliel | RPG Forum | 106 | 04-15-2004 10:52 AM |