Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

[Willow Oran]

Personally, I rather hope that Harry dies in the end. She's been making the series progressively darker and the casualty characters are becoming progressively more important. If she wants to continue this trend there is no possible way that she can allow Harry to survive. If she had a happy ending planned she would have saved the character who died in this book for the climax at the end of the seventh, now the final climax will have to be an all or nothing affair and since I think we are all agreed that the probability of Harry being the sixth horcrux is high, he can't just kill Voldie, he has to die as well, in order for the story to be successful.

[Falagar]

Well, I'm not sure the only way to destroy a Horcrux (or at least, the part of the soul) is to kill it. There are still many things we can't be sure of when it comes to them, and I think Rowling will have some solution in store. Perhaps Harry will realize he is a Horcrux, then sulk through the whole book about how he has to die, and then find some way to get around it. I agree that it would be a good ending if she decides to kill off Harry, but I don't think it's necessary in order to make a good ending, or the only way to pull off a satisfying climax.

[HOBBIT]

finsihed this yesterday (was taking my time with it ).

As someone has said in this topic, I immediately thought that RAB was Regulus Black (dead brother of Sirius Black who tried to go against Voldemort but was killed soon after) - it fits the best with what the ntoe said.


Imagine my shock when about 20-25 minutes I read a big spoiler in one of the topics here.....

Who dies and who kills him something like

Snape kills dumbledore.... haha i just saved you 10 hours of reading

While at first 'knowing' who would die and who killed him was annoying - then the plot to kill Dumbledore and Snape's loyalty to Voldemort and his UNBREAKABLE VOW became more clear.

Kind of obvious that Dumbledore was going to die.

One of the biggest surprises was that Snape was the Half-Blood Prince. Of course, idiot spoilers, were looking to see who died instead.

[King of The Istari]

Originally Posted by Khamûl

As much of a happy ending as that would be, I don't see it happening. It often happens in literature that the hero doesn't make it. Look at two of the oldest pieces of literature that we have: The Iliad and Beowulf. Hector, the protector and hero of the Trojans, is killed. Beowulf, after defeating Grendel and his mother, is mortally wounded in a fight with a dragon. Ever see the movie Gladiator? I have no problem with a hero making the ultimate sacrifice for what they believe in.

yeah and thats all fine and good but most children wouldn't see it as harry making the ultimate sacrifice but basically as death, that harry has either been murdered by the ememy or commited suicuide they wouldn't nessesarilly care that voldemort has been defeated and the rest of the wizarding world is saved but care that their hereo that thewy have been reading about in seven novels is dead

thats my two cents

[King of The Istari]

PS

Killing harry is not the only way for the ending to be succesfull!
may I remind everyone that this whole idea is based on a picture on the spine of only the british version and that the picture was done by an artist not by JK rowling so it may be nothing at all

AND

That is a picture of the ring after dumbledor destroyed the horox (sorry can't spell)
not the horox its self so the crack only apears after the horox has been destroyed (in the pensive scene, there is no crack in the ring but in dumbledore's office there is a crack that is nver really described, this is after the horox its self has been destroyed)

[durinsbane2244]

i was just thinking about ol' dumbledore's hand, and here's me theory:

DD said it was from his reactions not being so great anymore, so maybe he was dodging an avada kedavra and it hit his havd, thats hwy it looks dead, it is dead, but he used magic to prevent it from affecting the rest of him.

[Spock]

If the A.K. spell hits you anywhere, you die. It was probably another spell or hex that he didn't dodge completly, like a "withering spell".

[Nurvingiel]

Personally, I think we should be allowed to post spoiler tag-free. After all, one would reasonably expect this thread to have "Half-Blood Prince" spoilers in it after its released.

Originally Posted by inked

Rhudhaglarien,

I must say that thy Dad and me, we agree!
Dumbledore it MUST be!
Only then can JKR King crown Harry!
Who leads the OoTP, reclaiming Sovereignty!
From Voldemort, half-blood principality,
Usurper, governing malignantly!
'Til Harry redeems wizardry -
Fitting end to this septology!

But just in case...

The second post in this thread hit the nail on the head! I can't believe Snape killed Dumbledore. If he hadn't, Snape would have died, because of the Unbreakable Vow. He killed Dumbledore to save his own life at best, and murdered him on Voldemort's orders at worst. I was really shocked, I never suspected Snape. I did at the beginning, in the scene at Spinner's End, but then I thought... "Dumbledore trusts him, he must be covering himself as a double agent...." What if Dumbledore discovered that he was one of the Horcruxes, and wanted Snape to kill him (as someone already suggested)? I've been reading some interesting theories about that and it seems to fit. (That maybe Dumbledore knew the potion was killing him... two skilled Legilimens (sp?) staring at each other...)

[Elfmaster XK]

I took the liberty of NOT USING THE SPOILER TAG. Nurv is right, the thread is about the book. Besides, we've had time to read it now, and those who are still reading should be sensible enough to not come on this thread yet.

Originally Posted by King of The Istari

PS

Killing harry is not the only way for the ending to be succesfull!
may I remind everyone that this whole idea is based on a picture on the spine of only the british version and that the picture was done by an artist not by JK rowling so it may be nothing at all

I disagree. This idea is not based upon the picture, it is based upon several things. I simply noticed the picture afterwards and thought maybe it was significant. In CoS when talking to Dumbledore about Voldermort transferring his powers Harry says "Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" or something to that effect. I think this is an important clue. Harry saw himself as the snake in OotP. If Nagini had a part of Voldie's soul, as well as Harry it makes sense he would see from her eyes, not Voldemort's controlling the snake. As soon as he realises he is a horcrux too, Harry should be able to find the other pieces more easily.

AND

That is a picture of the ring after dumbledor destroyed the horox (sorry can't spell)
not the horox its self so the crack only apears after the horox has been destroyed (in the pensive scene, there is no crack in the ring but in dumbledore's office there is a crack that is nver really described, this is after the horox its self has been destroyed)

I disagree again, I'm afraid I think that the ring, complete with crack was the horcrux and Dumbledore didn't know how to destroy it, so he kept it in the safest place he could. On his person. And in his office when he was in there. Harry notices that at some point the ring merely disappears. I think that was when Dumbledore had worked out how to destroy it. In the pensieve there is no crack in the ring because the Gaunts had it, and then Tom Riddle found it and had not yet put his soul into it.

What if Dumbledore discovered that he was one of the Horcruxes, and wanted Snape to kill him (as someone already suggested)? I've been reading some...

I don't think that's possible. The only way (we could know of) Dumbeldore being a horcrux was through drinking the potion. But, I think the letter in the locket was not fake, and it really had been stolen. Also, if he was, why would Voldmort be afraid of him? It makes no sense to give your greatest enemy something that powerful, which is why I think he didn't realise he'd done it to Harry. I think he probably does now though.

[Andúril]

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.

[King of The Istari]

Originally Posted by Elfmaster XK

I took the liberty of NOT USING THE SPOILER TAG. Nurv is right, the thread is about the book. Besides, we've had time to read it now, and those who are still reading should be sensible enough to not come on this thread yet.




I disagree. This idea is not based upon the picture, it is based upon several things. I simply noticed the picture afterwards and thought maybe it was significant. In CoS when talking to Dumbledore about Voldermort transferring his powers Harry says "Voldemort put a bit of himself in me?" or something to that effect. I think this is an important clue. Harry saw himself as the snake in OotP. If Nagini had a part of Voldie's soul, as well as Harry it makes sense he would see from her eyes, not Voldemort's controlling the snake. As soon as he realises he is a horcrux too, Harry should be able to find the other pieces more easily.



I disagree again, I'm afraid I think that the ring, complete with crack was the horcrux and Dumbledore didn't know how to destroy it, so he kept it in the safest place he could. On his person. And in his office when he was in there. Harry notices that at some point the ring merely disappears. I think that was when Dumbledore had worked out how to destroy it. In the pensieve there is no crack in the ring because the Gaunts had it, and then Tom Riddle found it and had not yet put his soul into it.



I don't think that's possible. The only way (we could know of) Dumbeldore being a horcrux was through drinking the potion. But, I think the letter in the locket was not fake, and it really had been stolen. Also, if he was, why would Voldmort be afraid of him? It makes no sense to give your greatest enemy something that powerful, which is why I think he didn't realise he'd done it to Harry. I think he probably does now though.

But dumbledore SAID he had destroyed the horoux in the ring when he was telling harry about them AND the ring was still there

[Falagar]

Originally Posted by Andúril

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.

It's worth getting into. Very much so. Especially the later books (3-6, with the exception of The Order of the Phoenix). Unless you're very afraid of being ridiculed by literature-snobs...

[King of The Istari]

another thing about book 7,
Hasn't anybody thought that there is more skill in writing a ending in which both satisfies the audiance and doesn't end in the death of the hero

than writing an ending where harry dies, it would almost be like JK ran out of ideas!

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally Posted by Andúril

All this hoo-haa about a Harry Potter book disturbs me a little.

So. Like. Here's a question: Is Harry Potter worth getting into? I liked LotR and The Silmarillion. Thanks in advance.

Hello Andúril. In answer, yes it is. I didn't start reading them until after the 4th one was out because I refused to conform (or something like that). But a friend (Dwarven Sen) convinced me to start and since then I've enjoyed them. Just give the first one a read, but bear in mind a, they are supposed to be kids books and b, (IMO) they get better.

But dumbledore SAID he had destroyed the horoux in the ring when he was telling harry about them AND the ring was still there

Are you positive the ring was there when he was telling him that? I haven't checked, but I thought that the parts with the ring present were earlier in Dumbledore's lessons to Harry. He didn't tell him about the horcruxes remember? Harry had to find out what they were from Slughorn, and after that when they discussed them, the ring was gone. I think. I'm going to check on my re-read but I'm letting my mum read it once first before I start analysing!

[Andúril]

Originally Posted by Elfmaster XK

Hello Andúril.

Hi EXK. How've you been?

In answer, yes it is. I didn't start reading them until after the 4th one was out because I refused to conform (or something like that). But a friend (Dwarven Sen) convinced me to start and since then I've enjoyed them. Just give the first one a read, but bear in mind a, they are supposed to be kids books and b, (IMO) they get better.

Hmmm. I'll consider it.

[Elfmaster XK]

Originally Posted by Andúril

Hi EXK. How've you been?

Hmmm. I'll consider it.

I've been..well. I'm good now, but I had a pretty crap year. Still, things going better now. What about you? Hope everything is alright.

You know what might interest you also are some of the analytical books on Harry Potter. I haven't read any of them, but I know other people who've enjoyed them. Apparently "smart people like them" (according to some stuck-up so and so) I kept away.

[King of The Istari]

Originally Posted by Elfmaster XK

Are you positive the ring was there when he was telling him that? I haven't checked, but I thought that the parts with the ring present were earlier in Dumbledore's lessons to Harry. He didn't tell him about the horcruxes remember? Harry had to find out what they were from Slughorn, and after that when they discussed them,

I've just read the chapter, Dumbledore showed harry his blacked hand and harry said the ring, it never says the ring was actually presant or not but I've read all the "lesson" chapters and Harry does not notice the ring is not there till after seeing slughorn's memory and talking with dumbledore!

[inked]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

Personally, I think we should be allowed to post spoiler tag-free. After all, one would reasonably expect this thread to have "Half-Blood Prince" spoilers in it after its released.


But just in case...

Nurv,

You remembered! I am touched.

Snape is still a good guy. I like your point about two skilled Legilimens staring at each other.

Harry was petrified by Dumbledore to see what happened and not interfere. I think D was dying as a result of the potion drinking. I also think he had unsuccessfully contained one of the protective spells guarding the Horcrux in the ring and was being slowly and agonizingly killed by his containment effort. His request to Snape was to implement a previously designed plan to guard against this possibility and to secure the end of the Horcrux if D had (unintentionally) become a host to that evil in some manner. Thus Snape fulfills an unbreakable vow to D and to Narcissa, but the upshot is he still serves the Order. The difficulty will be in convincing Harry. Though I think his actions at the end, sparing Harry from the others, and instructing Harry in what he MUST needs do before facing Voldemort are very telling; I am not sure Harry sees them that way (yet)!

More to come (you know me!)

ANDURIL,
You really should read the entire HP series. Do not be put off by the designation of the books as a children's series. It is GREAT literature marketed as for children. Which is, IMHO, like saying NARNIA and MIDDLE EARTH are for children. Might be true on one level, but emphatically not true on most levels.

[Nurvingiel]

Thanks Inked , and I agree with you about childrens' books in general (and especially Tolkien, Lewis, and Rowling ). I don't care what genre a book is in, if it looks interesting, I'll give it a shot. I love the Harry Potter series! The first book is still my favourite, even though I love HBP!

But is it just me or did the plot seem a little disjointed, even rushed in some places?

Originally Posted by King of The Istari

I've just read the chapter, Dumbledore showed harry his blacked hand and harry said the ring, it never says the ring was actually presant or not but I've read all the "lesson" chapters and Harry does not notice the ring is not there till after seeing slughorn's memory and talking with dumbledore!

Harry notices Dumbledore's hand at the Dursleys, and for some reason I thought he noticed the ring then too. Maybe not though.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by King of The Istari

another thing about book 7,
Hasn't anybody thought that there is more skill in writing a ending in which both satisfies the audiance and doesn't end in the death of the hero

than writing an ending where harry dies, it would almost be like JK ran out of ideas!

No worries there, I think JKR wrote the first and last chapters at the same time. IIRC, she said that in an interview. I think the ending will be in true Rowling style - great, and completely unexpected. And most likely one or more grisly deaths will be involved.

[gollum9630]

my theory is that the potion that Dumbledore drank was the horocrux, the locket was a way of tricking people into actually taking the horocrux to try and get at what they believe was the horocux. However, Dumbledore knew this and therefore made pre arangments with Snape about what he had to do, and destroying the horocrux. Unfortuantely, whoever R.A.B beat Dumbledore there, unknown to Dumbledore, and therefore the ensuing event by Snape was not neccasary

hope that makes sense