03-19-2007, 04:25 PM | #221 |
Elf Lord
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Evil as a point of view.
Has anyone noticed that seems to be Disney's new tack?
I was at the grocery and there was a rack full of books written from the villian POV. I wonder what the kids of today will grow up to believe, if Ursula the sea witch was just "misunderstood." |
03-19-2007, 04:42 PM | #222 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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Maybe. Understanding evil is the best way to combat it.
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03-19-2007, 04:47 PM | #223 | |||
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Quote:
If, as you imply, cows produce more global warming gas than humans do directly, then this is still a contribution of humans. (This was also Jonathan's point.) However, I doubt that this is so. Do you have anything to back up this fairly outlandish claim? Now, since I'm asking for an article or the like, I feel I should provide one too. Fair is fair. I have a Wikipedia article here I think is worth reading. Wiki does have its weak points, but its strength is controversial science-related articles, and the greenhouse effect (the mechanism of global warming) perfectly fits the bill. Maybe we should make sure that we're all on the same page in this thread before we continue debating. Does this article make sense to everyone? You don't have to agree, but does it make sense? If we're all on the same page, then we can debate the fine points. EDIT: See also: Global Warming
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 03-19-2007 at 04:49 PM. |
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03-19-2007, 05:51 PM | #224 | ||||
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The biggest problem is not breathing, it's farting. You need to keep these two separated. As you know cattle produce methane which is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Because we breed them, cattle continues to make up a bigger and bigger part of the total biomass and with all that enteric methane production of theirs, greenhouse gas emissions get out of hand. Humans could slow down the greenhouse effect. Thus, life is not the problem. We are. Quote:
And actually there is a theory that dinosaurs farted (not breathed) themselves to death . That's probably not true because it is believed the dinosaurs died out really, really quick. So an asteroid impact or volcano eruption sounds more likely. But it's an funny thought and who knows, maybe they did warm up the globe a bit before they died? edited in: Quote:
Quote:
Livestock's Long Shadow It's a 400-page-UN report. And I didn't read all of it, just the relevant chapter
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 03-20-2007 at 04:43 PM. |
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03-20-2007, 01:52 PM | #225 | |
Quasi Evil
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This isn’t a political issue for me. I approach this not from the point of view of how do I spin this issue based on my philosophical/political persuasion but instead whats the reality of the situation. And the reality is humans are exploitive and weak (which by the way does NOT equal "evil"... mathematics and biology are not moral fields...) while also being highly adaptive and resourceful. That combination leads to great tragedy and hardship as well as resilience. So the unthinkable is inevitable. Now this is by no means a justification for conservatives to promote the idea of trashing the environment and killing the ozone and the rain forests and the snowy egret etc. simply because we are doomed to mess everything up anyway. That’s a sad and despicable approach that values profiteering and immediate convenience above all else. Its no different then justifying burning down your neighbors house to expand your yard because it would fall down from old age eventually… How we impact the environment TODAY effects us TOMORROW. Not just 1,000 years from now. And there are basic things that we need to do to make life better for US and our children not simply the unknown babies of the far future. It was not very long ago that man used to be able to swim and fish in the clean waters of the Danube and the Yangzi and countless other rivers. Not so today. Fish used to be virtually boundless. Not anymore. The prospect of fishing our fish to death is within sight. Yes of course you can argue “Well so what. The environment will adjust itself accordingly” and that’s true but then you are basically condemning hundreds of millions to immediate hardship and eventual suffering and death because that’s what a global biological adjustment consists of… Anguish of an unimaginable level is just normal operating procedure for old mother earth and her natural cycles. Ice ages? Asteroids? Life forms that trash their environment and die en mass like locusts? Par for the course… We should be wary of ALL of them… Of course those things aren’t necessarily directly related to global warming but my point really goes beyond that. We need to be wise about our choices with the environment or else immediate life gets bad. The idea that its an ok thing to spin this issue and avoid dealing with it for as long as possible should be a despicable approach for anyone that speaks of morals… If you ask me Christians should be spearheading the environmental movement. Its too bad we resort to speaking the party line on such fundamental and important issues and ignoring our conscience, our better judgment and our self proclaimed "sense of morals".
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03-20-2007, 03:37 PM | #226 |
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Call me whatever you want :P Heres my view: The world works itself out. Thats how it works. We won't go extinct until our set date. Many could die, yes, but there is not danger whatsoever of extinction until the right time comes. And when that does, nothing can stop it.
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03-20-2007, 04:14 PM | #227 |
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...and so your point is that its ok to pollute and trash the environment?
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03-20-2007, 06:39 PM | #228 |
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No... I am just saying its not something we should get all woried and worked up about... I mean, I totally disagree with trashing the enviroment. We should not do so. But we SHOULD NOT go crazy over protecting it. I have heard people who seem to want us to go to the stone age again. Thats extreamist.
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03-21-2007, 02:32 AM | #229 |
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You say "many could die, yes" and don't think that's something to be worried about?
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03-21-2007, 12:25 PM | #230 |
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Yes I do, but, we may not always be able to....
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03-22-2007, 01:38 PM | #231 | ||
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I believe you Jonathan. Is it that cows actually emit methane? So they really do?
My argument that this is still a human effect on the environment, since we domesticated cows and bred them in large numbers, still stands. There is a happy medium between going "crazy" over protecting the environment and "sending us back to the stone age" and polluting at will you know Nokom. The whole 'envionmentalists just want to send us back to the stone age' argument is a weak attempt to put off responsibility for the environment. We live on this planet, and if we want to continue doing so, then it's up to us and no one else to take care of it. We're the only animal that consistently degrades the environment and overuses resources. Right now, our date with destiny is somewhere along when our Sun becomes a red giant. If we alter the planet's ecosystem to the point where it will no longer support human life, then it will be us, and not divine intervention, that extincted the human race.
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03-22-2007, 01:52 PM | #232 |
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"some Nurv"
Nurv, I can't believe ur being so annoying in this thread. I think there has been more than enough facts presented to prove that global warming is not caused by humans; I am tempted to spank u (which would actually be worth the trouble). Tell u what, why don't you explain which parts of the arguement against humans being responsible for global warming u don't agree with and why.
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; Last edited by The Telcontarion : 03-22-2007 at 02:51 PM. |
03-22-2007, 02:02 PM | #233 |
Elf Lord
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No, I'll tell you what. Instead of mouthing off, why not address the damning evidence which has been presented in this thread that climate change deniers are fraudulent:
http://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/sho...3&postcount=158 |
03-22-2007, 02:02 PM | #234 | ||
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By breeding cattle, humans are responsible for the emission of greenhouse gases to a great degree. Not to mention the negative effects cattle breeding has on freshwater resources and arable land in many parts of the world which indirectly contribute to global warming. Quote:
But yes, life on earth will meet its definitive end on that celestial occassion 5 billion years from now. edit: Hey Gaffer, you should always test your links after you've posted them . You didn't get the entire URL in there.
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 03-22-2007 at 02:30 PM. |
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03-22-2007, 02:03 PM | #235 | ||
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Are you kidding me? The evidence that you've posted that wasn't fabricated by a total fraud has already been refuted in this thread.
Meanwhile: An article about hom humans dominate Earth's ecosystems, including our contribution to carbon dioxide to the atmosphere Human alteration of the nitrogen cycle (N2O is also a greenhouse gas) (Let me know if a link doesn't work, I'm at university right now and have a lot of access to journals.) For starters. Before we go on, do you understand what global warming is? Whether you believe it is happening or not, understanding the mechanisms of global warming is important to the debate.
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03-22-2007, 02:08 PM | #236 | |
The one true King of the human race, direct descendant of Adam and heir to the kings of old. "You owe me your fealty." The Tar Minyaturion
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Proverbs 21:3 To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice. Ecclesiasticus 2:1-5 1 My son, if thou come to serve the Lord, prepare thy soul for temptation... ...4 Whatsoever is brought upon thee take cheerfully, and be patient when thou art changed to a low estate. 5 For gold is tried in the fire, and acceptable men in the furnace of adversity. Romans 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; |
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03-22-2007, 02:15 PM | #237 | |||
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Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-22-2007, 02:37 PM | #238 |
Advocatus Diaboli
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It should be noted that even if we produced no greenhouse gases, the earth will eventually warm again in the future, just as we will have future ice ages. So, in the long run, the changes are inevitable. But, with greenhouse gas emissions, we are speeding things up dramatically.
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03-22-2007, 04:53 PM | #239 | |
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BJenkins, once you learn the actual amount of co2 emitted by humans in comparison to everything else natural that does, you will see that it is insignificant. One more thing: I have recently heard that co2s rise into the atmosphere BECAUSE of the heat, not the other way around. This would make sense on some level, wouldn't it? I mean, heat does after all, smoke the water out of your cup. Precipitation anyone? Isn't water vapor considered a greenhouse gas? This may just be natural cycle afterall... Is this just a case of not seeing the forest for the trees for scientists? And the public can only see the forest, because they don't understand the mechanics of science (Trees) as well. Pretty apt comparison, IMO.
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03-22-2007, 05:20 PM | #240 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
To sum up - it's fallacy to state that because something is small (human emissions) compared to something else (nature's emissions), the small thing must therefore be insignificant And it's a fallacy to think that because one thing (heat) can cause a certain event, a second thing (humans) is therefore unable to contribute as well, either independently or by affecting one another
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An unwritten post is a delightful universe of infinite possibilities. Set down one word, however, and it immediately becomes earthbound. Set down one sentence and it’s halfway to being just like every other bloody entry that’s ever been written. ☻ Last edited by Jonathan : 03-22-2007 at 05:24 PM. |
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