What people think of Two Towers (*SPOILERS*)

[Diaxion]

Although the movie was awsome and I liked it very much. It was awsome but I have to admit my cousin ben and tristan probably saw it before me.

[samwise of the shire]

Oh jeez, this is one of the hardest things to talk about. I really REALLY hated Arwen leaving for the Grey Havens. I did NOT get that and Elrond was like one of those Zoog Disney Dads who are so protective it's gross. I did NOT like those parts because they left me scratching my head. And Aragorn thinking that Arwen has left makes him fall for Eowyn and where does that leave Faramir? WHAT IS GOING ON!!!
The excorsism of Theoden is FREAKY...I did NOT like it...or the green zombies in the Dead Marshes. Leaves you wondering who or what is going to turn green in ROTK.
I noticed that Sarumans extravagent robes were a sort of dingy off white color compared to the simple pure snow white robes of Gandalf. And wasn't Shadowfax a beautiful horse?
I thought Eowyn was cool. She was so much more better than pouty Arwen. And they DIDN'T have a sword fighting scene with her and Aragorn...it just looked like it in the first trailer.
The ents were interesting...very treeish...maybe a little TOO treeish. And it looks like Pippin and Merry are starting to grow up...just like I've said they would a thousand times. Pippins little bit of illogical logic rocked.
I liked Sam and Frodo much more in TTT. I guess it's because they're starting to mature and they're no longer childlike and innocent. Frodo is beginning to become possessed by the Ring (which was executed by Elijah beautifully) and Sam doesn't know what to do with his changed master...but he tries to be patient and understanding especially when Frodo goes crazy.
And that brings me to the best character in the whole movie...Gollum/Smeagol. Yes I know this next bit is heretical but I liked the movie Gollum BETTER than the book Gollum. I liked him because he is so much more pitiable and I feel sorrier for him than I do for the book Gollum. Maybe it's because I cant understand the book Gollum. I dont know...I just thought Gollum rocked.
Cheers,
Sam

[obscenename]

Oh jeez, this is one of the hardest things to talk about. I really REALLY hated Arwen leaving for the Grey Havens. I did NOT get that and Elrond was like one of those Zoog Disney Dads who are so protective it's gross. I did NOT like those parts because they left me scratching my head. And Aragorn thinking that Arwen has left makes him fall for Eowyn and where does that leave Faramir? WHAT IS GOING ON!!!

I only saw the movie once, but I don't remember any part where Aragorn would have any idea where Arwen is when she has joined the elves going west. I don't think they are telepathically linked. I do think you have it right when you compare it to a Zoog Disney show.

She won't go to the Grey Havens. Arwen/Useless Character will make her father believe that she's going into the west, but she'll pull a formula I'm-sorry-but-I-have-to-defy-my-father-and-follow-my-heart move and find her way south to meet Aragorn and make me hate hopefully, only one scene in ROTK. As far as I'm concerned, she should have taken Haldir's arrow and put an end to her insipid lisping.

[squinteyedsoutherner]

Jackson has completely blown the love story in this trilogy. There were audible groans when the film cut to Arwen in my theatre. If the outcome was not already known, I think the vast majority of viewers would be pulling for Eowyn in this love triangle. Another mess brought about by his needless changes to the plot. I honestly believe Tolkien would think this film a total mess.

[Nurvingiel]

I've only seen TTT once, and I'll probably go one more time. TTT, as a stand alone movie, is very good, and worth seeing twice.

Unfortunately, TTT does not stand alone, it has the legacy of an amazing book to live up to. It doesn't live up to anything, much less the legacy of Tolkein.
After I saw the movie, I gave it a generous, open-minded review. Then, I went home and read TTT, and now I think it sucked.
TTT still retains its entertainment value of good mideval battles, occasional funny lines, and pretty people with swords.
I thought FOTR was as true to the book as a movie can be (which causes me to question the point of making movies of Tolkein's works.) The scenes where I writhed in agony watching TTT was when it deviated needlessly from the book.

1. Gimli is a comic relief wuss who can't keep up with Aragorn.
2. Aragorn falling off a cliff for no apparent reason. (I think it's okay for him to wake up with the lame Arwen dream because I'm so thankful Arwen isn't actually in the movie.)
3. Ridiculous Wargs who look like hyenas who were dropped on their heads as pups, and who aren't scary.
4. Wussie, asthma-plagued Frodo who tries to give the Ring to a Nazgul, and who has two facial exzpressions angst, and not angst.
5. Idiot Faramir
6. Frodo falling into a pool in the dead marshes.

Potentially continued later... after the second viewing..?

[Devey]

Originally posted by squinteyedsoutherner
Jackson has completely blown the love story in this trilogy. There were audible groans when the film cut to Arwen in my theatre. If the outcome was not already known, I think the vast majority of viewers would be pulling for Eowyn in this love triangle.

I have just read on some website that Jackson has actually changed the plot for Return of the King so that Aragon and Eowyn fall in love and end up together, Faramir is killed by the Nazgul and Arwen goes into the West.

[zavron]

That is Unspeakable!!

[Devey]

The site is called "www.wishfulthinking.com"

[Arathorn]

I think the changes make for good business sense.

Just think about it: Book fans will hate him for it but with all the flaming going around, bad publicity is still publicity. Those who did not notice the changes (the subtler ones) the first time around will want to watch it again. Then there are those who would want to see it again to better understand why they were done whether or not there is a valid reason for the changes (go discuss).

The changes also make it a more level playing field between the book fans and the non-initiates as no one really knows what's going to happen next. I remember watching the Harry Potter films and they are very close in detail to the books. I was impressed, yes. But I didn't want to watch after the 2nd time since they did not offer anything new.

And finally, the most obvious reasons are to wink at the MTV generation with jokes and such.

I'm not sure if he intended for Tolkien fundamentalists (purists) to cry foul; however, the strategy, if there is one, seems to be paying off. What a great businessman!

As for me, I'm watching TTT 10 more times because I enjoyed the eyecandy. The movie, for me, is a jump-off point for my imagination of middle-earth. A movie does not, a book, ruin, IMO. The book stands on its own as canon and even the Bakshi cartoon won't change that. And besides, Good cinema seats only cost 2 US$ here.

[Lizra]

One of these days I'm going to have to rent that Bashki cartoon! Maybe on my birthday!

[Earniel]

Just read the 12 pages that you guys typed.... fieuw....

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who wasn't thrilled by TTT. I actually dreaded coming to movie forum after I've seen it.

Visually the movie was.... well there are no words big enough to describe it. Stunning. And that's putting it mildly. It will be long before this is ever rivaled (until ROTK comes out, I wager ). I loved the sceneries: Rohan, Helm's Deep, Fangorn..... I loved the CGI-gollum although his eyes were a bit big. I could have accepted it if it was because of his long stay in the dark under the Misty Mountains but then his eyes should have been white and not so cutely blue. The ents were magnificent, not totally as I had imagined them but definately how an ent could look. And treebeard had seven fingers! The attack of the ents on Isengard was a feast for the eyes. I liked it how they all braced themselves for the flood.

The plot was a little less. Maybe my expectations were too high but it often looked so alien. My dad asked my to elbow him if there was a scene different from the book. I elbowed him a lot. I was very dissappointed that they rewrote several characters: Faramir, Éowyn and Elrond. I won't go into Faramir since that's been discussed already. But despite the good work of the actress it just wasn't Éowyn. Éowyn from the book is a sort of icemaiden, unhappy and bitter about her life and the world in general. She only 'thawed' when she met Faramir. Éowyn in the movie was too warm but that's probably just my own opinion. Elrond too was a let- down. Is this Eärendil's son? Who constantly goes on about there being nomore hope and that they should all better leave for Valinor?

I'm puzzled to by Arwen's behaviour. First she says there's still hope but then she leaves to the havens? Still, I like it better that way because at first I thought it was her and her companions that turned up in Helm's Deep instead of Haldir. Silly me.... I didn't mind overmuch about Haldir showing up in Helm's Deep but I just wonder how it connects to the 'Elves are fading' thing. Wasn't the Age of the Elves over?

Overall the film looked a bit oversimplified and rushed. I know that movies are a different medium than books and that you can do a lot less in movies ect...ect... But still. I do like it how they focused on a few less expressed scenes such as the plight of the rohan-population and the relation between GrÃ*ma and Éowyn. Gimli was funny but they've carried it a little too far for my taste. And I'm pretty certain that that thing about dwarfwoman and beards came straight out of Pratchett's discworld serie.

But on a happier note you guys have giving me hope again that I might like it better after a second viewing and that I would really like too. Thanks!

[eowyngirl14]

Yesturday, I saw the movie for the 3rd time! I think it just keeps getting better, on most of the parts. The bits with Merry and Pippin, just keep getting more boring... I think that the ents were wonderfull, looking, but their dialoge really sucked. Only one of them ever says anything in english, the rest is all HOOMing and HOming, wich I am sorry to say, I do not understand.

[Entlover]

Originally posted by Khamûl
In the line of the story, Theoden and Company are supposed to leave Helm's Deep and go to Isengard to cast down Saruman. :

This leaves too much for RotK, I think. We've got to see Saruman destroyed -- not without conflict. Denethor/Gondor's battle/Theoden's death/the Nazgul destroyed. Frodo/Shelob/ Sam rescues him, then the Lords of the West marching to the Black Gate and fighting a whole new battle.
Too many battles! Why did PJ leave them all for RotK?

[Thingol_GreyMantle]

I have now seen TTT twice and after reading all the 12 pages of posts in this thread I would just like to add my two cents.

Regarding the changes to Faramir, I found them effective in the movie but hard for me to watch since his character had changed so much from the book. Here, I think, lack of familiarity with the books would have been an advantage. Faramir is one of my favorite characters and I can only hope and pray that PJ does justice to the Faramir/Eowyn love affair. Considering how he has managed to mangle Aragon/Arwen/Elrond relationship, I hold out faint hope.

With respect to the inclusion of Arwen (again where she doesn't belong) and Aragon's near death experience, I have a few irreverent questions:

Why is Elrond such a jerk? Why is Arwen on the way to the Grey Havens? Is Arwen jealous of Aragon's horse? Which kisses better?

Not only is Arwen not on her way to the Grey Havens, she is making his banner. Arwen is not some rebellious teenager planning histrionics before boarding the grey ships.

The winged Ringwraiths were over done and not as effected as the Black Riders in FOTR. The scene with Frodo at Osgiliath reminded me of several movies having a confrontation between a plane/helicopter rising up to appear at rooftop level. On the plus side, it does get Faramir to realize Frodo has to continue his journey.

I thought Gollum was well portrayed and wished the story had at least taken us to the stairs of Cirith Ungol even if PJ is saving Shelob for ROTK.

[Lizra]

Yes, The winged Nazgul wern't scary! they needed more fear build up or something....I think their FoTR horses with wings, like in Greek mythology would have been scarier. They need more creepy stuff, the Urak Hai were over loaded!

[Arathorn]

Now that I think about it, the winged Nazgul would've been scarier if the camera had just focused on Gollum and the 2 hobbits. If there was any running involved, they could just show shadows moving rapidly on the plains and kept the steed and Nazgul sounds in so you have a clue that they were there. The unknown is a good device for conveying fear.

I would've saved showing the nazgul until Dernhelm's and Merry's moment. If PJ really wanted that scene with Frodo and the nazgul, I'd rather have just shown frodo and a blacked out hand or other appendage reaching down on him.

*Imagines scenes from "The Others"* Bye now!

[BrandonB]

OK people. I'm obviously new here, and I just wanted to reply to people's thought on the new LotR movie. I just don't get it. What would it take to satisfy some of you? I swear, I think the only way you wouldn't be disappointed would be if orcs jumped out of the screen and started chopping people's heads off. It's a movie, not a book, of course there's going to be changes. Peter Jackson isn't on a mission from God to make exact replicas of the books, he's offering his visual representations of the books that someone else wrote. I read alot of this thread thinking I would see the same excitement that I had in watching it. But most of what I saw is a bunch of whining and crying about how they left out this scene just cuz it would have added another hour to the film, or this character didn't act exactly the way they thought they would when they read the book, or how come I wasn't as scared as the chartacters were of the wraiths? Doesn't Peter Jackson know any magic spells for crying out loud?. Read the book again if you don't movies. The movie will never do it the justice that your own imagination will. So get over it and get over yourself. That's all, thanks for reading my rant.

[Celebréiel]

Welcome to the moot Anywho, No ones really *that* serious about being upset about the changes, I think it was the first shock, I thought FoTR was good and accurate, but then TT came along totally weirded out....Ive grown to like it as a separate movie. The problems with the changes is PJ came off (imo: this is how I first saw him) as a big tolkien fan, who wanted to make an accurate representation of the books for the fans, that also contributed to my dissapointment, b/c thats totally not what TT is....um yeah......something about honer to Tolkiens name........and.......the immortal characters he created(:cries: poor Gimli) .....er.....no movie would ever do justice to our imaginations but it was nice to hope that one would come close! Merry X-mas!
~Celebréiel

[eowyngirl14]

I agree with what Celebriel said/posted. Since we are all typing our comments, you can't hear our tone of voice used. When I posted previously on this thread, I didn't think I would be interpretted as whining. I was just posting my own opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. I too hoped that TTT would follow the storyline as much as FotR did... I was just dissapionted and a little angry. I have gotton over that now... I love TTT as much as I do FotR, even if it took three trips to the movie theater and the teaser posters in my stocking this morning t oconvince me...

Happy Holidays Everyone!

[TinuvielChild]

Having finally discovered this thread... I just want to say, I loved it both times I've seen it so far. Faramir...well, he was dead sexy, but that's about the only good thing that can be said about him. Andy Serkis was absolutely in-bloody-credible as Gollum. Was v. v. sad when Craig Parker's character got killed. Helm's Deep was rather long, but it was all worth it just for a couple good lines and Legolas's "stair-surfing" bit. It seemed to me that everyone made opposite decisions from what they did in the books just so they could make a theatrical entrance/deliver some theatrical lines that make them seem very noble later on in the movie. Was that just me, or did other people notice that? The review I've been giving people is: If you've read the books/are a purist, it's nowhere near the books; FotR was better. If you're looking at it just as a movie, independent of the books, it's spectacular, and better than FotR.


Oh, and I didn't like how Gimli was pure comic relief. It was hilarious, but nobody took him at all seriously throughout the entire movie! Eh, well. They got rid of most of the bonding between Legolas and Gimli, too, which bugged me, but hey. I'm a purist. It's still a good movie.