09-15-2005, 02:28 PM | #221 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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"No matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up."
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09-15-2005, 02:52 PM | #222 |
of the House of Fëanor
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09-15-2005, 02:52 PM | #223 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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the question "I still don't understand how the taking of the child's life is ok in one situation and not the other???" is moot... what is "okay" is relative to the individual the question should be, "how can we change things so that less people will abort their children" ... the answer to this is not outlawing abortion, since it will happen anyway... the answer is better options for the mothers who do not want to keep their child or who are afraid at the time (whether right or wrong) that they won't be able to handle keeping the child laws should not be designed around the strongest individuals... they should work for everyone
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09-15-2005, 02:59 PM | #224 | ||
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I don't want to debate about this i would just like to point out that abortion is unnecesasary, My parent are awesome they have adopted twice(and no i wasn't adopted myself) and are going to adopt again. there are thousands(maybe millions but i don't have any stats at the moment) of couples that would like to adopt, it is simply a better solution to the same problem.
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09-15-2005, 03:01 PM | #225 | |
An enigma in a conundrum
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--------------------------------------------------------------- "Earth is an insane asylum, to which the other planets deport their lunatics." Voltaire, in Memnon the Philosopher
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Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
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09-15-2005, 03:17 PM | #226 | |
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09-15-2005, 03:20 PM | #227 | ||
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i don't know why it doesn't cure everything i'm just pointing out that abortion is unnecesary, and no spock i'm not debating(or at least i don't mean to )
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09-15-2005, 03:29 PM | #228 | |
of the House of Fëanor
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Quick definitions (Debate) noun: the formal presentation of and opposition to a stated proposition (usually followed by a vote) noun: a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition or proposal verb: argue with one another (Example: "We debated the question of abortion") verb: discuss the pros and cons of an issue verb: think about carefully; weigh verb: have an argument about something
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09-15-2005, 04:33 PM | #229 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-15-2005, 04:38 PM | #230 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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wow ....
Thank you, Tree Dweller, for sharing your experience with us. *moothug* I have some comments I'll share a bit later from people I've heard from that have carried a child of rape, and they're very, very powerful statements. I just have no time now. But I wanted to thank Tree Dweller for sharing a very personal part of her life with us.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç Ã¥ â„¢ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-15-2005, 04:57 PM | #231 | |
Advocatus Diaboli
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the key word there is "individual" ... abortion is not necessary, i'll agree with TR ... but it IS a choice people some people make, even before it was legal ... and i think more time, which is now spent fighting the "principle" of abortion, should be put in to combatting the reasons why people make that choice (and it aint about religion either... christians get abortions too)
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09-15-2005, 05:05 PM | #232 |
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Yeah thanks TD. I agree with you wholeheartedly. If you are raped or you become pregnant and you don't want the child then you could have it adopted . But I don'tdon't see how we have the right to take away the chance of a life from somebody else. They may have a bad life, but they may have a good life, there is no way of telling, but they still have the right to a chance.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!" The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230 |
09-15-2005, 05:07 PM | #233 | |
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My humble opinion on that would be our extremely "me-centered" society and way of life. If all anyone is conserned about is pleasing themselves, then it is only natural that they wish to take away any consequences of their actions. (To be clear, what I am speaking of is people carelessly getting pregnant, not rape....which makes up at least 90% of abortions) My reasons for having an abortion were the same as anyone else I have ever talked to who had one. And one of the main ones was how it would affect my life......could I go to college....could I have the career I wanted....etc... Well, I should have thought about all that before I had unprotected sex. So, to have abortion legal and extremly inexpensive is just an open door for people to use it as "birth control". I can't tell you how many girls I heard in the clinic practically bragging about how many abortions they had already had.
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------------------------------------------- Miracles are a retelling in small letters of the very same story which is written across the whole world in letters too large for some of us to see. C. S. Lewis ------------------------------------------- I always liked going South, somehow it feels like going downhill. Treebeard ------------------------------------------- ~*~Diary of a Beach Bum~*~ |
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09-15-2005, 05:24 PM | #234 |
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Extreme pro-choice views such as "Don't care if she was raped. Tough. Has to have the kid. If she doesn't want it, put it up for adoption"
Ok, so that is what YOU would do, but to have that be the law and to force that upon ALL women in that situation? Carrying the child of their rapist..... great. The rape case is an extreme case that probably most people would allow the abortion early on. What about if you are too young to support the child? Have to give up your own child for adoption again??? Punishment for careless sex? That whole viewpoint seems so extreme to me. We have no idea when exactly the fetus "becomes alive" I guess pro-lifers think it is at conception. Why? Shouldn't the rights of the mother be stronger than the rights of a not yet in existance child?
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09-15-2005, 05:27 PM | #235 |
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If the argument is when does life really begin and no one can agree on and exact week or month, then wouldn't the safest thing be to ere on the side of life?
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------------------------------------------- Miracles are a retelling in small letters of the very same story which is written across the whole world in letters too large for some of us to see. C. S. Lewis ------------------------------------------- I always liked going South, somehow it feels like going downhill. Treebeard ------------------------------------------- ~*~Diary of a Beach Bum~*~ |
09-15-2005, 05:32 PM | #236 |
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Yeah at the expense of the women not allowed to get abortions. Forced to carry and un-wanted child. And think of all the "back-yard/back-alley abortions" - ultimately resulting in many medical situations and death among the women - who we DO KNOW are alive.
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
09-15-2005, 05:52 PM | #237 |
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I feel as many others here, that i don't really want to get involved in this debate right now...
but one thing i did want to say and am amazed no one has (sorry if i missed it - if someone did) but tree-dweller my sincerest thoughts to you that you did get raped my thoughts are with you. and i am full of admiration for you that you have just stated it here for the first time - may it hopefully help you find some sort of release (can't think of the right words ... ) and guys whatever your thoughts on this ... have a thought for tree-dweller .. that must have been a hard thing to decide to say. best all BB |
09-15-2005, 05:57 PM | #238 | |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
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Point is each case has to be weighed, and not covered by a religious law.
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09-15-2005, 06:16 PM | #239 | |
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09-15-2005, 06:28 PM | #240 |
Dúnedain Ranger of the North
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(((HUGS))) to Tree Dweller and Lotesse for talking about their experiences here.
Any dirt-bag of a male who would force themselves upon a lady are indeed the lowest form of scum, and it is best that I do not run into any who have done this for it would not be pleasent.
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