11-23-2002, 11:12 PM | #221 | |
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I think what Peter Jackson means there is that unlike the book, there is no mention in the film of the fact that the Ring must be destroyed in the Fire until the Council of Elrond. In the book, Gandalf talks about this before Frodo even leaves the Shire. Regarding the various comments about Frodo's "strength" or "weakness" - I would say that even in the book, there is much evidence to suggest that Frodo's courage lies primarily in his self-sacrificial will to face responsibility, not in his physical ability.
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11-24-2002, 01:39 AM | #222 |
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The growth of his courage was not based on physical ability but on the willingness to act under the duress of fear. Certainly his years in the Shire in no way prepared him for the journey to Mordor. It was, in the book, the incremental leaps of confidence exampled in his bravery in the Barrows, on Weathertop, and at the Ford. In the film the side of him as baggage in still in but his moments of bravery are doused. No Barrow, he drops his sword without a swing on Weathertop, he does not make his strike for the Shire against the troll. Some very nice cringing though.
Even the smallest person can get up and at least try to defend himself.
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11-24-2002, 01:48 AM | #223 | |
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11-24-2002, 08:21 PM | #224 |
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Thank you so much!! I found it!!!
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. - Dune |
11-24-2002, 09:07 PM | #225 | |
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I've been watching the directors commentary. It's sort of strange how they don't even seem to know what was in the book, yet over and over Jackson was saying how close to the book he was staying. They also talked about how there were a lot of complaints about Arwen "calling" up the water. That was the least of my complaints with that scene. Listening to Jackson describe the movie and what he felt was needed - makes me believe even more that he only set out to make an action movie. I agree that things had to be changed - but not a much as he changed them. He goes on about how he hates magic in fantasy films and says that that is why Saruman and Gandalf don't have a "fireworks" battle at Isengard. No - instead he gives us break dancing Gandalf. He also makes Saruman cause the storm that forces the Fellowship to abandon the pass and go to Moria. And Cirdan is right - Frodo needed some incremental moments to build up his strength for Mordor. Right now I need to argue with my friends, who haven't read the books, that Frodo is really stronger than he looks. They also claim that Boromir should have been given the ring. They feel that Boromir's idea of taking the Ring should have been tried and that a human would have been a better choice for going to Mordor. Why is this? Because Jackson didn't build of the characters of the Hobbits in the theatrical version. Instead he gave us action scene after action scene. Through out the dirtectors commentary he even says how everything "needed to be more intense". Well I don't think EVERYTHING had to be more intense.
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11-25-2002, 03:27 PM | #226 |
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I agree with that. I think it could have been done in a more understated way. A movie, even an adventure movie, doesn't have to have larger than life special effects to be good. Even so, there would have been plenty of opportunity to do the effects, have the battle scenes, etc. But I think you're right, he wanted it to be an action movie. I personally still really like it, but there are times when I see it that I wish this or that little thing had been done differently. I also thought it interesting in the appendices (that's what I'm in the process of watching now in the dvd) that Phillipa Boyens says that she likes to think of the things that were left out as things that just aren't mentioned. In other words, they DO see Tom B., but they just don't show it, and the same for other stuff that's left out.
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11-25-2002, 03:49 PM | #227 | |
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I guess by what you claim is said on the DVD - that according to Phillipa Boyens the movie matches the book exactly - it's just not on the screen. Makes me feel even more that they weren't as familiar with the books as they claim and just want the fans to accept it. They seem to be trying to cover their tracks and come up with lame reasons as to why the movies differ so much from the books - even if they do repeatedly claim they don't.
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11-25-2002, 04:33 PM | #228 |
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I got the feeling that Phillipa was a fan of the books; they mention a lot about how they were always trying to find ways to stay true, but still have a "marketable movie" I think it was probably frustrating for her to be faced constantly with having to alter things, but to be limited in that they had to answer to the powers that be. I think Jackson did have more of an action movie in mind, though. I don't think he was quite as married to the notion of staying true to the book. But I could just be reading a lot into it. Everyone seems to say over and over in the different parts of the EE and Appendices how they tried to stay as close as they could to the books, but it obviously wasn't someone's aim, as there are a lot of differences. It's too bad some really rich person who had no interest in the money-making aspect, but was aiming only for the true art of filmmaking, couldn't have done the films.
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11-25-2002, 05:36 PM | #229 | |
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The thing that gets me about them constantly saying - we tried staying true to the books - is that so much DIDN'T have to be changed. They had no reason to change Aragorn's character and I doubt the movie studio even had any input into his character or the clowns that they turned Merry and Pippin into. A lot was in their hands and THEY chose to change it. A lot was in Jackson's hands.
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11-25-2002, 05:55 PM | #230 | |
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JD - Whenever they talked about being true to the book they never meant in detail. They always couched it in terms of "spirit" and "essence". PJ says that early on they decided they couldn't stick very close in detail, but that as the project went on they found they couldn't stray very far from the general plot and characters. That's what they meant by staying "true" to the book. PJ even said that he wanted the scenary to be as close to the book as possible so the fans would at least feel that they had seen ME even though the story was changed.
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11-25-2002, 06:04 PM | #231 |
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I just listened to the director's commentary last night for the first CD. It was really interesting - I got a little more understanding of what works and what doesn't on a film. After all, they DO have to have it appeal to non-LoTR fans, too. It would have been nice if someone with lots of $$ forked up the cash to make a movie that was entirely true to the book, but I can't see how that would happen, so I'll just enjoy what we have, which is really quite good overall, IMHO.
It WAS pretty funny/ironic when they said something was in the book and it wasn't! There's some parts in the movie that really irk me, but overall, I'm very glad it was made - I just kind of ignore the parts that irritate me, and mentally "insert" the real parts. Visually, it was very well done - I really appreciate all of the detail that went into the weapons, etc., and the time they took to teach Legolas to really shoot a bow and arrow (I'm an archer, so I notice!) Notice how nicely he "anchors" at the corner of his mouth every time he shoots, and Aragorn anchors all over the place, because most of his time was spent learning how to use a sword! Anyway, I'm really curious how the Two Towers will come out - I hope it doesn't deviate even more.
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11-25-2002, 06:10 PM | #232 | |
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Also - I never disagreed that Jackson's Middle Earth sets look great. The problem that I have with the movie is the fact that he doesn't really go any deeper than action and scenary. he could have stayed closer to the books than he did - he acts as if fans should be happy and pleased with his movie. Well I'm one of those LotR fans that doesn't buy his propaganda. The movie could have been SO MUCH more than it was, stayed closer to the books and still have been a success. If he had more charactersation and stuck closer to the books - chances are it could have won best picture. As it was - I don't think it should have even have been nominated. And I'm not talking about a regurgitation of the book either - I'm just saying STAY CLOSER to it (likehe constantly said in interviews).
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11-25-2002, 06:25 PM | #233 | ||
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I never said that you had to like the movie despite the changes. I was always well aware of the changes (some of which were radical) but I still enjoyed the movie. You either like it or you don't.
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11-25-2002, 06:36 PM | #234 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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He did do a propaganda campaign on the movie. I was reading everything about LotR before the movie came out and listening to his interviews. Now I have a different attitude toward the movie and what Jackson says. What he says now - is different than what he was saying while he was making it. Oh well - hopefully at some point someone will actually make a movie that does the books and Tolkien justice. As far as I'm concerned, Jackson's movie doesn't come close to capturing the magic of The Lord of the Rings.
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11-25-2002, 06:39 PM | #235 | |
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11-25-2002, 06:44 PM | #236 | |
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I expected Arwen and Aragorn to possibly talk more, her to take Glorfindel's place - but not to practically single handedly save Frodo from the ringwraiths.
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11-25-2002, 07:01 PM | #237 | |
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Here's an early interview by PJ. http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=2728
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11-25-2002, 07:52 PM | #238 | |
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Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide Last edited by jerseydevil : 11-25-2002 at 07:53 PM. |
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11-25-2002, 07:56 PM | #239 | |
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11-25-2002, 08:06 PM | #240 | ||
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