12-03-2003, 06:01 AM | #2201 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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Just something on a religious note:
In the gay thread, in reference to rejection of Church teachings on sexual matters, I said (with the support of our illustrious Fiery Maia ): Quote:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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12-03-2003, 11:55 AM | #2202 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
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12-03-2003, 12:19 PM | #2203 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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I'm aware that there are other traditions - I have been most actively involved in the Eastern/Buddhist /Taoist tradition, so I realise that there are other concepts of our "Ultimate Ground of Being" or whatever you want to call it. Quote:
When you say that we " are trying to use our human cognitive skills to approach something that is beyond that" you are already assuming that there IS something beyond that- you're really a (disguised) believer
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
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12-03-2003, 01:36 PM | #2204 | ||||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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12-03-2003, 02:48 PM | #2205 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
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Just for posterity:
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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12-03-2003, 03:08 PM | #2206 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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12-03-2003, 03:19 PM | #2207 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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And what would they be?
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
12-03-2003, 04:24 PM | #2208 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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12-03-2003, 06:19 PM | #2209 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
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"genuine discussion", ay?
So you admit that I actually think (which is what genuine discussion is), despite the enormous handicap of being a Christian? (and I haven't answered your questions in your sig because (1) you didn't ask, and (2) I generally prefer challenging questions ) *note - the above statement, altho true, is made completely in the spirit of friendly ribbing* Hi Lief! Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-03-2003, 06:44 PM | #2210 | |||
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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12-03-2003, 07:54 PM | #2211 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-04-2003, 02:18 AM | #2212 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
What do you mean by that, Mr. J?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-04-2003, 11:07 AM | #2213 | |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Quote:
Romans 11:33 "Oh, the depths of both the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!" Isaiah 55:8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your thoughts my thoughts." Probably not the ones you wanted, but oh well.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle |
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12-04-2003, 12:13 PM | #2214 | |||
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Reality
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12-04-2003, 06:08 PM | #2215 | |||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Posts: 15,254
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You silly twat! *gives Gwai an affectionate noogie* Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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12-04-2003, 06:34 PM | #2216 | ||
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
Join Date: Dec 2002
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John 14:7 "If you know me, you know my Father, too. From this moment you know him and have seen him." John 14:17 "that Spirit of truth whom the world can never receive since it neither sees nor know him; but you know him, because he is with you, he is in you." As long as you stick to "not a full and complete one", I'm right beside you.
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 12-04-2003 at 06:36 PM. |
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12-04-2003, 08:48 PM | #2217 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Yes, those are the ones I'm thinking of, and I have no problem sticking with "not a full and complete one", and I enjoy your company!
Here's another: "...He who has seen Me has seen the Father..." John 14:9 And to cover those times before the incarnation of Christ, and those people who have never heard of the person Jesus : "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God, or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." And to address the whole question of "what if God is beyond our comprehension", as in ENTIRELY beyond - When one considers the questions: "Is there a God? If so, what is He like?" I suppose one way you could start is with dividing the possibilities up into 2 categories - a god that is entirely unknowable, and a god that is knowable to a degree. By definition, "god-candidates" in the first category are, um, well, entirely unknowable, so you don't need to bother about those anymore, I don't think. So that leaves us with: "If there is a god, the only kind I could even consider would be a god that is somehow knowable, in at least some degree, to me. Now let me consider what that would look like in the real world around me." And one candidate I would like to submit, from a personal knowledge of Him , is the God of the Bible, who is knowable to a degree that is incredibly joyful.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
12-06-2003, 10:24 PM | #2218 | ||
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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(Claps)
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(Looks annoyed; has to procur the mathematical evidence about the unlikeliness of life having come to being) If the evidence available seems insufficient, you could ask for more. The best source probably to ask for more from is God. Ask him to show you that he exists, if he does. If you really mean that prayer, he will answer it for you. Edit: Oops, sorry. Titled the quote as from Insidious Rex, when it was actually GrayMouser I was talking to. Last edited by Lief Erikson : 12-08-2003 at 02:13 AM. |
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12-20-2003, 05:12 AM | #2219 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lyonesse
Posts: 4,547
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Just curious. . .how can you really mean such a prayer when you believe absolutely thoroughly that there is no one out there to answer you? Wouldn't that then mean that you don't actually mean it if you don't believe it? So if you are actually genuinely asking God if for a sign of "his" existence, then wouldn't that imply that you have some doubt of his lack of existence, and thus believe that something could be possible? So if I wanted to know for sure, say just for kicks, and I have some sort of prayer like that, well, I wouldn't really mean it. And if I did really mean it, then I think, deep down I'd at least have to have some sort of doubt, more likely an inclination towards belief. ANyway, I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this. Right. I'll get back in another few months after I've taken logic and New Testament. . .might just have a better understanding. At the moment I'm just avoiding going to sleep and find this discussion quite a wonderful form of entertainment.
(I think this might be part of why my friends think I'm a dork. That and the way I go on about Lutheran theology and canines and bone structure. )
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
12-20-2003, 01:32 PM | #2220 |
Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster
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Eruviel; I thought that you did believe that God exists, that you just choose not to worship him; or are you just speaking as an atheist here?
P. S. Welcome back, Eruviel!
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Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 12-20-2003 at 01:34 PM. |
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