Polictical Correctness

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

JD, I thought Inked said they didn't care about the names of the baseball teams and it was some random other group complaing about it. Now I can't find what post that was though.

I haven't been on much - but here is your answer. A MINORITY of Indians it offends. While at trish's graudation party in may at the reserve one of her friends got into it with me about the baseball team the Indians and things like that. I was in no mood to argue - so I left the room. I found it rather annoying that he's bitching about a sports team in another country, who is named in HONOR of one of it's greatest players, but yet is silent on the above signs that Indians themselves freely display to advertise their business. I find it hypocritical and racist for them to say that "well we can put this stuff up - but you can't have indian logos". hell - we have the Vikings, the Patriots, the Kings, etc - I don't see much difference. The Scandanavian population isn't going around bitching about the Vikings mascot and team name.

It's the small minority with big loud voices and some with big moneyed lawyers at their side that is causing this damn ridiculous PCness.

[Insidious Rex]

I would say theres a marked difference between the terms "Indians" or "Seminoles" or "Aztecs" and "Redskins". I can certainly see how native americans would see the name Redskin to be offensive. Theres no parallel between the term Viking and Redskin. As far as I know "Redskin" is the last of the great racist team names.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

I would say theres a marked difference between the terms "Indians" or "Seminoles" or "Aztecs" and "Redskins". I can certainly see how native americans would see the name Redskin to be offensive. Theres no parallel between the term Viking and Redskin. As far as I know "Redskin" is the last of the great racist team names.

Yeah - they consider it such a racist term they have the Red Indian Gas Station on the reserve.

[Blackheart]

It might be because red man means something different to lakota souix

"Luther Standing Bear (1978) wrote that red face paint was used daily by Dakota women and more fair skinned children to protect the face and body from sun and wind. He also noted that this was the origin of the term "red man" since Native Americans have brown colored skin (Standing Bear 1978). Standing Bear described his Lakota grandmother, who was anticipating the birth of a child, baking red earth clay and pounding it into a fine powder to mix with buffalo fat. This rendered it into a creamy paste which 'served as a cleanser and also a protector to the tender skin of the child. . . '"

The fact that it's a business/tourist consideration probably has at least something to do with what the store is named...

If you want to buy something from my po' cracker boiled peanut stand, or redneck ranch, go ahead. I'll probably smile and then call you a yankee bastard, or note that you are from the land of fruit and nuts, or even worse; poor soul- from Alabama, But after you spend your money and leave...

I can only relate things to my own experience, but I will note that some people get upset when you call them a redneck, and some people make a living off it....

My personal opinion is that there are only two kinds of people in the world. The haves, and the have nots. And that's a very relative relationship... Someone's always got less than you, and someone always has more...

Living in the US, even the poorest people can be considered haves, and at the same time live in abject poverty... It's a f'ed up world, and if the man wants to call his gas station the red man filler'up, he can do so, as long as he's not doing false advertising...

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Yeah - they consider it such a racist term they have the Red Indian Gas Station on the reserve.

So by that logic if one white person isnt offended by calling a team say the "Georgia Rednecks" then no whites are allowed to feel it is a derogatory term?

EDIT: My point was already anticipated by Blackheart. Pardon its redundancy.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by inked

Hey, no Kwaanza music? No Muslim winter tunes? JUST HOW INCLUSIVE ARE YOU THERE IN PORTLAND?

My post clearly stated that they included Christmas songs, and they called it Christmas, and they sing about Jesus' birth at a public school in the heart of southeast Portland. This is in response to people who say we liberals (and southeast Portland is one of the most liberal places in America) are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. It is simply not true. It is an exageration meant to elicit pity for the supposedly oppressed majority.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

So by that logic if one white person isnt offended by calling a team say the "Georgia Rednecks" then no whites are allowed to feel it is a derogatory term?

EDIT: My point was already anticipated by Blackheart. Pardon its redundancy.

There have been many deragatory comments against republicans on this board - especially during the election. I find it funny how no one thinks nor cares about that - but hey - Inked already went over this. As for Georgia rednecks - go ahead. Words are only as powerful as you make them. Call a team the NJ Whites for all I care.

[Beor]

I know this is pretty much not even close to the conversation here (whats up, JD?! ), but here it is:

I am at my wife's Grandfathers house right now, and the other day we were sitting by the bar in the kitchen and I said to my kid, "what does Santa say?", and my kid said "ho ho ho", which i thought was an acceptable answer, so my Grandfather in law turned to me and said, "I dont think you can say ho ho ho anymore", and I said "why not?," and he said, "its not politically correct, it should be something like 'lady of the evening, lady of the evening, lady of the evening'" I though it was funny.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Beor

I know this is pretty much not even close to the conversation here (whats up, JD?! ),

Hey Beor - How are things going? E-mail me. Welcome back and welcome home.

I am at my wife's Grandfathers house right now, and the other day we were sitting by the bar in the kitchen and I said to my kid, "what does Santa say?", and my kid said "ho ho ho", which i thought was an acceptable answer, so my Grandfather in law turned to me and said, "I dont think you can say ho ho ho anymore", and I said "why not?," and he said, "its not politically correct, it should be something like 'lady of the evening, lady of the evening, lady of the evening'" I though it was funny.

That is funny.

[Elfhelm]

Great example to back my point! I would rather see people care about being polite than worry if they are being politically correct. And the anti-PC movement is just a way for people to justify being impolite.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

Great example to back my point! I would rather see people care about being polite than worry if they are being politically correct. And the anti-PC movement is just a way for people to justify being impolite.

It is not a way of justifying being impolite. You can no legislate politeness and there will always be racism. Just like many people - especially liberals seem to hate rich people for the sole purpose because they're rich. I'd like to point out the many times that you were far from polite during the election - so I wouldn't get on your throne as the model of of politeness here. You're comments toward religious people and those who don't support y9our views is a prime example of your double standard.

[Beor]

You know, there are restraunts where the whole point of the place is that they are assholes to you, and it is actually quite refreshing. No fake smiles, no "yes sir, no problem", only, "Hell no, eat the damn thing with mayo or dont eat it, youre paying for it either way". Its awesome. I can understand political correctness, but people take it too far. Most of it is just ridiculous.

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

My post clearly stated that they included Christmas songs, and they called it Christmas, and they sing about Jesus' birth at a public school in the heart of southeast Portland. This is in response to people who say we liberals (and southeast Portland is one of the most liberal places in America) are trying to take Christ out of Christmas. It is simply not true. It is an exageration meant to elicit pity for the supposedly oppressed majority.

Just as a note - not you liberals, just some liberals. There's a difference. To claim that all liberals are against christmas would certainly be an exaggeration - but the subculture of liberalism that wishes to censor everything that they might dissagree with has been violently opposed to Christmas (among other things). And it was never said that the majority was oppressed, just that there were continual efforts to oppress (and suppress) the 95% of the country that celebrates christmas. These aren't just a few overblown examples - there are numerous attempts each year to remove Christmas from the public square.

It is maintained that a society is free only when dissenting minorities have room to throw their weight around ... As a matter of fact, a dissenting minority feels free only when it can impose its will on the majority: what it abominates most is the dissent of the majority.

[jerseydevil]

BTW - political correctness is another phrase for selective bigotry. Political correctness is only applied to CERTAIN groups.

[Elfhelm]

The funniness of the joke is the sudden unexpected mention of the "lady of the evening", which is the polite way to say it. The whole joke hinges on an objection to being required to be polite, and a pretense of confusion about the word "ho". Is there anyone who doesn't think the word "ho" is impolite?

Personal attacks are not only impolite, they are against the rules at this messageboard. Politeness can be legislated, as it is here, and enforced. For instance, the use of anglo-saxon words for body parts instead of proper latin words, because you know, the Normans did conquer the Saxons and established the list of vulgar and profane words long ago.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Beor

You know, there are restraunts where the whole point of the place is that they are assholes to you, and it is actually quite refreshing. No fake smiles, no "yes sir, no problem", only, "Hell no, eat the damn thing with mayo or dont eat it, youre paying for it either way". Its awesome. I can understand political correctness, but people take it too far. Most of it is just ridiculous.

Yeah - I know - there is one in Chicago. My brother used to love going there. I had never been there though - but they're whole thing is about being rude and obnoxious. From what my father said - my brother got really into and would insult the waiters and things.

[jerseydevil]

Originally Posted by Elfhelm

The funniness of the joke is the sudden unexpected mention of the "lady of the evening", which is the polite way to say it. The whole joke hinges on an objection to being required to be polite, and a pretense of confusion about the word "ho". Is there anyone who doesn't think the word "ho" is impolite?

It may be impolite - and I wouldn't call someone a ho - unless they were.

BTW the elfhelm - thanks for explaining the joke to us - we would never have understood otherwise.

Personal attacks are not only impolite, they are against the rules at this messageboard. Politeness can be legislated, as it is here, and enforced. For instance, the use of anglo-saxon words for body parts instead of proper latin words, because you know, the Normans did conquer the Saxons and established the list of vulgar and profane words long ago.

Entmoot is not a free society with a freedom of speech amendment. You can NOT force people in a free society to be polite. As for being polite - where was the outrage from the democratic party when Whoopie Goldberg was comparing Bush to her body parts? There was none - so again - don't try to claim that you somehow have this great enlightment about politeness.

[Elfhelm]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

...the subculture of liberalism that wishes to censor everything that they might dissagree with has been violently opposed to Christmas ...

Violent? Who's violent?

It's a generic term to say Happy Holidays because it includes everybody. Those who wish to change it to Merry Christmas want to exclude all but themselves. It was the Yuletide for a lot longer than it was Christmas. But we don't call it Yuletide anymore because that would exclude the Christians.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

There have been many deragatory comments against republicans on this board - especially during the election. I find it funny how no one thinks nor cares about that

whats that got to do with the cost of tea in china exactly?

As for Georgia rednecks - go ahead. Words are only as powerful as you make them. Call a team the NJ Whites for all I care.

Now who would want to cheer for that? Maybe the Homestead Whites? Sorry... I crack myself up...

Its funny though. I read an article in the sports section recently written by a jewish guy that said man Id LOVE it if a team called themselves "The Jews". Because how awsome would it be to have 80,000 people screaming GO JEWS! GO JEWS! GO JEWS!

But that all aside, the point is you cant really get around the fact that the term "Redskin" is a deragatory term. And its a bit bizarre that its still used for a major sports team in 2004. Of course Im a hypocrite for going to the games but hey Im gonna call a spade a spade (oh woops... probably not a very PC phrase to use in this context... )

[Insidious Rex]

Originally Posted by jerseydevil

Yeah - I know - there is one in Chicago. My brother used to love going there. I had never been there though - but they're whole thing is about being rude and obnoxious. From what my father said - my brother got really into and would insult the waiters and things.

The Billy Goat Tavern. Its world famous ever since Saturday Night Live paradied it like 20 years ago. But its just shtick really. Now if you want rude service go to pretty much any restaurant in New York.