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#201 |
Hoplite Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,931
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To Bropous and Nibs,
I over reached my bounds by stating the word fact. But since there is the idea of re-embodiment of Elves in the SIL it does not seem far fetched that he could return to ME. For the record I like the idea of 7-12 Balrogs with wings ( of shadow or flesh) It make the Battles with Fingon, Feanor, Ecthelion, and Glorfindel so dramatic. the Lords of Light against the Greatest Servants of Melkor ( save Sauron) It ennobles Glorfindel's character. For his sacrifice at Gondolin he is re-embodied in a greater form and is returned to ME. ( sounds like Gandalf )
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About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer. Last edited by afro-elf : 03-06-2002 at 07:33 PM. |
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#202 |
Bard of Mangled Songs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila
Posts: 2,679
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A Glorfindel the White then...
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Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert Accio, Ash Nazg! Elennuru s?*la lĂșmenn' omentielvo (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures... |
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#203 | |||
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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Quote:
don't be so g0d dam literal. Quote:
READ: O-PIN-YUN Quote:
everyone is entitled to one. don't be so mean.
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#204 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,176
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you tell 'em, nightingale.....
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
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#205 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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sorry if i am being snotty tonight.
i think i said somewhere else that it has been a DAY. nurg. so anyone who reads my posts from today, take about half of the bitterness out. except the one above what bropous posted. that one.. gir, it made me mad. i guess im not the only snotty one today... ![]()
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#206 | ||
Best Ex-Administrator ever
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 60,547
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Quote:
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#207 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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i was sounding it out for you, in case you needed help.
*sigh that's the problem with typing things. you can't tell how they are said. i don't like to label people intentionally, but gee, i haven't liked any of her movies, and her air at awards shows is.. well, i can't find the words right now. but it's just like i would expect it to be. i don't know her, no. if i did and she turned out to be different, i assure you i would eat my words. but until i do, my opinion stands.
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#208 | |
Best Ex-Administrator ever
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ireland
Posts: 60,547
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#209 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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IF she turned out to be different
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF ! i don't believe im wrong. i am saying that if i was proven to be so, i would accept it, not hide from it. why do you have to pick apart everything i say? my goodness, like a chicken you are! scratch and pick scratch and pick. FINE! believe i am foolish. i don't have to talk to you. GOOD NIGHT SIR!
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#210 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
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The only thing I don't understand about the Arwen bashing is the perplexing devotion to Glorfindel. Dude had a cool name and hints at a cool past. Yeah, he probably was the elf at Gondolin but so what? He was a minor character in FoTR, let alone LoTR.
Someone please help me understand.
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
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#211 |
Head Hollara
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 751
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I like to think that every one would realize that every post here is opinionated in some way (my opinion). Take everybody's comments here for all they're worth: an opinion (my opinion). We're all in the same boat here (my opinion). No one can see both sides to every issue (my opinion).
In conclusion, the Glorfindel issue is inconsequential - a matter of opinion (my opinion). Same thing with Arwen (my opinion). Don't attempt to correct some one's opinion, for it will not change (my opinion). And those, my friends, are my opinions, for all they're worth: an opinion (my opinion).
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"People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us. |
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#212 | |
Elven Warrior
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: aisle 12, seat#2
Posts: 449
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Quote:
The problems most folk seem to have with the movie version are (in no particular order.) 1- If you're gonna use Tolkien's ford scene why not do it the way it is written. 2- The way the scene is performed takes away from Frodo's character. 3- It also removes power from Elrond and Gandalf, re. the making of the flood. 4- The way the scene is executed brings Arwen too much to the fore front . 5- X number of people really dislike Liv Tyler as an actress (some to the point of taking it personally.) 6- Also X number of people were really looking forward to seeing a powerful Glorfindel being portrayed. 7- see number 5. I think, olsonm, that about sums up most of the Arwen/Liv Tyler thing. I, of course, have no problem with this as was posted ages ago in this very thread.
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"Holy Entmoot, Batman!" "Who knows, Robin? This strange mixing of minds may be the greatest single sevice ever performed for humanity! Let's go, but, inconspicuosly, through the window. We'll use our Batropes. Our job is finished." Oh, btw, Frodo lives. Last edited by Pailan : 03-07-2002 at 05:45 PM. |
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#213 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
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That's what I meant Nibs. I WANT to know peoples opinions on Glorfy so I can understand better.
![]() Pailan, thanks ![]()
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! Last edited by olsonm : 03-07-2002 at 05:47 PM. |
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#214 |
protector of orphaned rabbits
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place!
Posts: 1,236
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i don't mind the arwen stealing grlorfindel's role in FotR, becasue, your right, he is a minor character.
if he would have been introduced right then, it would have been confusing to poeple who didn't know what was going on. you get so much information in such a little time period, i can see why they would shift some things. but couldn't they have just replaced one character? i mean, i really really wouldn't have minded at all if ONLY glorfindel was replaced. but frodo too? no, that weakens areas that should be strengthed and strengthens areas that should be left as they were. this has been blown up beyond my recognising, and now i feel as if i am defending myself against people like CBG who pick apart everything i say. so, the reasons i give for keeping up with all of this: self defense of my right to voice myself in a way where i am not ATTACKED. but, as i said in the last post, sometimes i just have to give up and walk away. it isn't worth getting all my feathers ruffled. it's a movie. a good movie. why else would my numbers tally 9?
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#215 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
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Hey Luth, great O-PIN-YUN!(sorry couldn't resist!
![]() But seriously that makes alot of sense. ![]()
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
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#216 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: minneapolis MN
Posts: 920
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The "Frodo was robbed" angle is alot better than the Glorfy angle.
Still the scene at Weathertop was more important and the scene at the ford is it's parallel. It seems to me that people focus on the Ford scene because of their hatred of Liv. That in itself doesn't bother me but the Ford scene can only be interpreted in light of the Weathertop scene (in the book as well as the movie).
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Gandalf lives...oh and Frodo too. Haldir Lives!!! |
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#217 |
Alcoholic Villain-Fancying Elf Pirate
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Lyonesse
Posts: 4,547
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Just to share my humble opinion, which is similiar to a lot of others here. . .
~I was fine with Arwen's expanded role, considering people need to know who she is when she marries Aragorn in RotK, and that her part in the books is really passive ~I, too, love hearing her speak elvish ![]() ~I didn't mind her finding them in the forest bit, I though it worked, excepting the wierd bit about her costume changing when she stops shining with that intense light ~Replacing Glorfindel was okay ~But stealing Frodo's defiance to the Ringwraiths was not ~And stealing her father's power, and the power of his ring, with making the water rise (which, if I remember correctly, was also Gandalf helping there. . .) ~Given the fact that they chose to have her spew defiance at the ringwraiths instead of Frodo, and there is nothing to be done about, I thought drawing the sword was fine, since she didn't try to use it or anything. Besides, I like the sword. I want it, it's really pretty. (I'm trying to collect swords. Next on my list is Sting. . .) ~I thought the choosing of immortality/mortality thing did a great job of portraying the fading of the elves ~I guess that's all. Except I really hope she doesn't show up at Helm's Deep.
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Eruviel Greenleaf in a past life. "Whoever has come to understand the world has found only a corpse, and whoever has found a corpse is superior to the world." -The Gospel of Thomas SQUAWK! |
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#218 |
The Buckleberry Fairy/Captain
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Washington State again (I miss Texas).
Posts: 1,345
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Gandalf's only part in the matter was shaping the waves into horses. Slightly reminiscent of his talent with smoke rings...
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A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun. |
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#219 |
EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMED
DCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Littleton, CO
Posts: 1,176
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I agree that Glorfindel ain't exactly a major character, but I would have preferred that the uninitiated audience see him as the first Elf they were exposed to rather than Arwen. I dunno, but the "daughter of the King of Elves" is what a lot of newbies may have thought as to her role. Glorfindel finding the Fellowship is more poignant to me because it makes the Nazgul that much more frightening that Elven Lords have to be dispatched to snatch the halflings from their clutches.
Arwen doesn't only weaken Frodo's character, she also weakens the Nazgul. Glorfindel, by juxtaposition to the Nazgul, makes them more of a threat because instead of courtiers and princesses searching the badlands, the Elven Lords searching just makes the threat to the hobbits all that much more real. Just my EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO O-pin-yun. ![]()
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"...[The Lord of the Rings] is to exemplify most clearly a recurrent theme: the place in 'world politics' of the unforeseen and unforeseeable acts of will, and deeds of virtue of the apparently small, ungreat, fogotten in the places of the Wise and Great (good as well as evil). A moral of the whole (after the primary symbolism of the Ring, as the will to mere power, seeking to make itself objective by physical force and mechanism, and so also inevitably by lies) is the obvious one that without the high and noble the simple and vulgar is utterly mean; and without the simple and ordinary the noble and heroic is meaningless." Letters of JRR Tolkien, page 160. |
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#220 |
Hobbit
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 25
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[["i don't mind the arwen stealing grlorfindel's role in FotR, becasue, your right, he is a minor character.
if he would have been introduced right then, it would have been confusing to poeple who didn't know what was going on. you get so much information in such a little time period, i can see why they would shift some things. "]] How is introducing Arwen at that point any less confusing? Why do people insist on using that excuse? In the story, Arwen is a minor character. Arwen showing up in the middle of the woods emasculating Aragorn isn't confusing? Arwen mumbling something about grace and weeping over a hobbit she has never met isn't confusing? Arwen changing her clothes to appear to Frodo bathed in light and then changing back isn't confusing? [["~I was fine with Arwen's expanded role, considering people need to know who she is when she marries Aragorn in RotK, and that her part in the books is really passive "]] Her part in the books was passive because her marriage to Aragorn was a tiny footnote in the story. I have an unrelated question for the scholars that has nothing to do with my loathing of that sequence of the film. Arwen was around when Aragorn was born. She was already a mature elf. At what point did Aragorn go from too young to fair game? I don't remember from the appendix exactly when Aragorn began living in Rivendell. Did Arwen ever change his diaper? |
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