06-07-2005, 04:57 PM | #201 | |||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Is it fine with you if I'm unjust to others? Why or why not? Is it, like, WRONG to be unjust to others? Because if it's not wrong, then why should I not be unjust? And if you want to avoid the question by backing up a level and saying being unjust causes harm, then I'll just ask you again - is it WRONG to cause harm to someone? If you don't think it's wrong, then apparently it's OK with you for me to cause harm to someone. Non-theistic positions just do not hold together logically, unless the person is brave enough to take the nihilistic position. Quote:
And when an agnostic tells a Christian to not vote the way they think is right! And when an agnostic says that it's discrimination against gays to prevent them from marrying who they want to while at the same time having standards about people of other sexual preferences. Illogical. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-07-2005 at 04:59 PM. |
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06-07-2005, 11:03 PM | #202 | |||||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-08-2005, 07:12 PM | #203 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I guess IRex thinks nothing is wrong.
Is this true, IRex? Because if it is, then please stop telling me how I should vote on issues like gay marriage. If it's not wrong, then why should I not vote against it? You say it's "unjust", and I ask you if you think it's wrong to be unjust, yet you won't answer this simple question. If you don't think it's wrong to be unjust, then why are you telling others to not be unjust? Do you think anything is wrong?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-08-2005, 09:15 PM | #204 |
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I think you just set a record for most things ignored in one reply while clinging to your attempts at setting me up as your straw man for your moral diversion. Lemme know when you can approach the data point rian...
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
06-09-2005, 02:31 AM | #205 | |
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06-09-2005, 04:50 PM | #206 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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How is it ironic, Rad?
As far as "creationist" - I'm not aware that it's been scientifically proven that God doesn't exist, and scientists themselves readily admit that they've been wrong before and will be wrong again, and IIRC, Galileo is a popular guy to bring up when talking about a guy who was right even tho it was against the majority opinion. How is it closeminded for me to have the guts to go against prevailing opinion because I honestly believe, apart from any religious beliefs, that the evidence supports creationism more? How is it openminded for IRex to say I'm wrong? I don't even say evolution is wrong - I just say that I think the evidence supports creationism more. How is that closeminded? Please explain! As far as "promoting discrimination against gays" - I hear over and over that it's "intolerant" to "deny" people the "right" to marry, based on their "sexual orientation". Fine - if you think homosexual couples should marry, then I hope you're consistent with your reasoning and you'll also let groups marry (why be "intolerant" of them?!) and sons marry mothers (why be "intolerant" of them?!), and sisters marry brothers (why be "intolerant" of them?!), and old guys marry children (why be "intolerant" of them?!), etc. etc. I don't mind hearing other people's opinions and thinking about them; what I do mind is when what they say doesn't hold up to reason. This "intolerant" thing is just a red herring, and a cowardly one at that, because it's used to insult others with different opinions. If you're going to throw "intolerant" around, then have the guts to apply it across the board, and let all those other groups I named get married, too! What, no? Why not, then? Because those other situations can be harmful? OK, then, whose definition of "harmful" shall we use? Yours? Sounds intolerant to me! Why not let everyone go by their definition of "harmful", since we should be tolerant of other people's opinions, especially when it comes to things like does God exist, which cannot be proven either way. And should we stop using antibiotics because it harms bacteria? Why not? I hear from non-theists that it's arrogant and wrong for us to consider ourselves special; why don't they stop using antibiotics, then? There are just so many logical holes in non-theistic positions that it's hard to know where to start! And harm in abortion - IRex is against partial birth abortion because it harms the fetus. Well, a 2-month-old fetus is obviously harmed by abortion, too! So he uses something other than "harm" to make his determinations. He described what that is -and it's very subjective, and different people have different opinions on it - so why doesn't he tell me that I should go by what I think is right and he'll go by what he thinks is right? And speaking of "harmful", is that wrong? Why won't IRex answer a simple question like is it wrong to do something? Probably because he knows he doesn't have a logical leg to stand on if he does. But if a person's worldview can't pass the test of logic, then I think the person should reconsider it. People have asked me several times how gay marriage is harmful, and I've responded several times that I'd be glad to answer that on the gay/les thread so this thread wouldn't be off-topic, and NO ONE has taken me up on that, which leads me to believe that no one really cares to consider the answer, because they've already made up their minds. How is that openminded?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
06-09-2005, 05:04 PM | #207 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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And as far as the "data point" - I have addressed it, but you ignore my replies. The problem here, I think, is that you want me to accept YOUR perception of the world, and if I don't, you say I'm "ignoring" you. I just don't agree with your perception of the world - that "science" is the be-all, end-all judge for all things. For one thing, you yourself admit that scientists can make mistakes, and scientists holding a minority opinion have been right before! So I don't know how you're so sure you know what's right. But the biggest thing is that I think your perception of the world is inadequate - it's just too small, and so it is false, IMO. I see much more than what you appear to see, and your worldview doesn't fit what I see, so why should I adopt your worldview if I think it's inadequate to explain what I see and experience every day? I find too many logical errors in your worldview. At least I'm openminded and tolerant, because I say that if your worldview fits what YOU see, then by all means keep it, and base your morals on it! You just seem to say that everyone should adopt your worldview and base their morals on it, regardless of whether they think it's right or not. That's openminded and tolerant? I don't think so. I don't know why you call yourself an agnostic, either - it seems to me that you should say, "since I'm agnostic, I'm open to any belief being true, because I think we don't have enough info to really tell which one is true, so if you think your beliefs are true, then you go ahead and base your morals on what you think is true!" Instead, you flat-out say I'm wrong?! How is that being agnostic? You're very inconsistent with what you say and how you act, IMO. You say you're "agnostic", yet you seem to only be willing to take up the easy parts of that worldview and not the difficult ones, and that's intellectually dishonest.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-09-2005 at 05:10 PM. |
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06-09-2005, 05:15 PM | #208 | ||
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
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06-10-2005, 09:26 PM | #209 | ||
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-11-2005, 12:25 AM | #210 |
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Well, I never said that my worldview was logical (I never said what mine was). Nothing wrong with being illogical, if you acknowledge it. I'm logical when it suits me I personally find little logic in religion.
No rush with your answer Rian. I have my own finals next week that I have to study for, so I understand. I'm just partaking in these discussions - what I say is just my own opinions. They are not the views of this board or any administrative statement. So don't think that an "admin" is criticizing you. I'm not even trying to do that (critcize you). I'll let you know if it is an admin note, otherwise I'm just HOBBIT the member.
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President Emeritus (2000-2004) Private message (or email) me if you need any assistance. I am here to help! "I'm up to here with cool, ok? I'm so amazingly cool you could keep a side of meat in me for a month. I am so hip I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis" - Zaphod Beeblebrox Latest Blog Post: Just Quit Facebook? No One Cares! |
06-17-2005, 03:14 PM | #211 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I started my answer over there, whenever you have time.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-17-2005, 04:57 PM | #212 | ||||||||
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Lets show em what was said and ignored about this subject before shall we… Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-17-2005, 04:59 PM | #213 | ||||||||
Quasi Evil
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-21-2005, 01:30 PM | #214 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I didn't ignore you. I'm not asking about if it's wrong "according to our constitution". I"m asking if YOU, personally, think it's wrong, independent of whether or not our constitution says it's wrong. Do you?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-21-2005 at 02:10 PM. |
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06-21-2005, 02:24 PM | #215 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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(from your last two posts)
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As far as I can tell, you think "ignored" means when someone doesn't agree with you. I haven't ignored anything you've said. I've read it and analyzed it and thought about it, and then when I point out the logical errors and inconsistencies in your statements, you say I "ignore" what you said. I think you're using that word incorrectly. I don't "ignore" what you say, I just disagree with it, because I see logical flaws in it. IMO, you ignore what I say, not the other way around. You keep avoiding answering the simple question I ask you, btw. I re-asked it many times, and re-asked it again in my previous post, and I hope you'll answer it this time - do you, personally, think partial birth abortion is wrong? And if you decide to try to avoid the question again by saying it's harmful, then I'll ask again, do you think it's wrong to cause harm? Are you somehow afraid to give an opinion about if something is right or wrong? Or do you just think that nothing is right or wrong, or what?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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06-21-2005, 02:27 PM | #216 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I know it's wrong (and that's why I don't do it, but our definitions of "discriminiation" differ - mine make logical sense, yours doesn't ). I just want to know if YOU think it's wrong. Do you? Do you think it's wrong to be unjust?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-21-2005 at 02:28 PM. |
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06-21-2005, 05:14 PM | #217 | |
Quasi Evil
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If i shoot a man in the head is that wrong? What if he is trying to kill me? What if he asks me to shoot him because hes in horrible pain? Is that wrong? What if hes perfectly innocent but a lion eats him? Is that wrong? Can you see now how "wrong" is a meaningless term in this context? If you base your whole outlook on life on the terms "right and wrong" its no wonder youre riddled with inconsistancies and double standards in how you view things: We must all be loving and tolerant but its "wrong" to be gay so its ok to discriminate against them... logical...
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-21-2005, 07:14 PM | #218 | ||||||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Tolerant - well, that depends upon the definition - different people define it differently. I think the definition that liberals use is pretty ... creative, to say the least! More accurately, I think it's illogical, incorrect, ironic, kinda funny in a sad sort of way, and very bullyish. I don't recall ever saying it's "wrong" to be gay, so you're inaccurate there. I've said that homosexual behavior is, IMO, wrong, along with many other types of behavior. And my definition of discrimination is more logical than yours, IMO. I think you're the one that's riddled with inconsistencies and double standards! BTW, would you like to defend your worldview on the "why you believe what you believe" thread, since you seem to think it's so logical? I'd love to have you on the "hot seat" to answer some questions One more time - do you think ANYTHING is right or wrong?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 06-21-2005 at 07:22 PM. |
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06-21-2005, 11:02 PM | #219 | ||||||
Quasi Evil
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Still trying to get me in the same trap after like 5 pages here... you need another chess strategy rian.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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06-22-2005, 01:38 AM | #220 | |
The Redneck Elf
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Do you remember the scene in Men in Black where the older guy is talking to Will Smith about the existense of aliens? I wish I had an exact quote but he talks about how people "knew" the earth was the center of the solar system, and some other things that I don't rememer; but the point was that scientists tend to take for granted those "certainties", like evolution. Evolution isn't fact, it isn't known. It has holes in logic and evidence. The only way to be sure about anything is to claim that you are omniscient. Or that your source is. Like, say, God. There are a few other issues here that I would love to contibute to, but it is much too late. Perhaps tomorrow.
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