03-17-2007, 05:55 PM | #201 | |
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Do you see the incompatibility of these two views? Because surely you must both agree that the livestock sector is a human creation and thus, if livestock produce greenhouse gases it is the responsability of the human breeders.
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03-17-2007, 09:22 PM | #202 | |
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In a few hundred years or less, it will be the biggest issue facing the world, whether we choose to admit it now or not.
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03-18-2007, 08:54 AM | #203 |
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I disagree.
If I had to name the biggest issue facing the world right now it would be hubris. people see themselves as above the rest of creation. All the rest just flows from that.
But if, 100s of years from now, mankind is restricted to this planet, well, the coackroach has more than earned her turn. The Economist recently had an article about the number of times improvement in wheat had come in time to eliminate famine that was absolutely due, by population measurements. Humans are clever and most of them committed to surviving. We haven't played all our cards yet. Just as part of my job as on-line shrink, brownjenkins, I'm going to say here that I don't think you're as lacking in optimism as you may believe. Educated western male pessimists just don't reproduce at that rate. I know quite a few of them. If you haven't read Silvia Louise Engdahl, you should. Only 3 days until the equinox. Spring is coming. Last edited by sisterandcousinandaunt : 03-18-2007 at 01:17 PM. |
03-18-2007, 11:23 AM | #204 |
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I'm optimistic that we'll eventually rise to the challenge of overpopulation. I'm just pointing out that it is a huge factor in the global warming debate that neither side likes to think about all that much. But eventually, we will.
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03-18-2007, 01:14 PM | #205 |
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Well, I think both issues (interrelated as they are) boil down to one thing, one acid test of humanity's rationality: are we as a species capable of organising ourselves and shaping our own destiny, or are we just a bunch of bacteria, mindlessly multiplying until we run out of resource?
The pessimists would say "no": free markets will rule the outcomes, as the strongest/luckiest survive and the weakest die in their billions. Lots of them even think the free market SHOULD rule the outcome and we shouldn't try to intervene as we'll just make a hash of it. The optimists would say "yes", necessity is the mother of invention after all, and sooner or later people WILL wake up to the realities. Whether this is soon enough to prevent millions of people from dying is another question. Personally, I'm an optimist. Sadly, however, pessimism tends to be a self-fulfilling prophesy in such things. Last edited by The Gaffer : 03-18-2007 at 01:20 PM. |
03-18-2007, 01:31 PM | #206 |
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Gaffer, how about a third possibility.
How about the Gaia Theory?
Which would translate more or less as "We may not smarten up, but it won't matter, something will get us." And as for millions dying. As the poet said, (keep your quibbles to yourself, folks, there are LOTS of poets, and they're all eligible for "as the poet said," ) No one here gets out alive. |
03-18-2007, 10:29 PM | #207 | |||
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03-18-2007, 11:54 PM | #208 | |
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From everything I've read, the world's population is should peak by mid century. For many countries, the problem is not over but under population. Most of Europe, Japan, Canada, and Russia plus many other countries are simply not replacing themselves. Russia is aborting more children than are being born each year and it's population is shrinking by at least half a million per year. Putin has said that having more children is a national priority. http://www.voanews.com/english/archi...3-08-voa29.cfm Germany's birth rates are so low that wolves are returning to some areas. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8359066/site/newsweek/ How this decrease in population especially in the industrialized world will influence history is unknown, but things will change. |
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03-19-2007, 03:43 AM | #209 | |
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Yes, we should focus on reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the livestock sector but also in transportation since both are responsible for a significant part of the total amount of gas. We can't overlook other areas (like transportation) simply because one area (the livestock sector) contributes with a bit more gas than the others. (This is Nurv's theory now? )
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03-19-2007, 09:16 AM | #210 | ||
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And if we don't watch it, the earth is going to become overpopulated. Nevermind that we won't have enough food to sustain ourselves, never mind that we'll become cannibals in the process...the earth is getting too heavy! With overpopulation, the earth is going to fall out of gravity! Don't get me started on the dangers on bottled water. Never before in history have we ever had so much water OUT of the ocean at one time... Without this extra water in the ocean to juice up the ground, the earth will shrink like a sponge, and then we'll be flooded over by the oceans! Quote:
Did Dinosaurs cause global warming in their day by breathing too much, and thus bring about their own destruction? It's worth considering....
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03-19-2007, 10:12 AM | #211 |
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Factory farming,
for those of you not keeping up, has a huge, and on the whole negative, impact on the planet. When you cut down rain forests to grow hamburgers, you change the balance of that ecology in many ways. When you grow chickens in highrise cages and feed them corn, you have run-off problems from the manure disposal AS WELL AS the problems of monocropping corn. And, as everyone should know by now, a diet of factory farmed animals results in a net protein loss over a diet of vegetables supplemented by more humanely farmed animals.
So, in answer to your question, hector, while modern farming techniques have resulted in enabling human populations to expand beyond what was previously considered 'natural limits' in some areas, they have often done so at the expense of at least the local, and sometimes the global, balance in the ecology. I don't know if anyone has calculated "metric tonnage of stegasaurs VS metric tonnage of moocows", but even if such a number could reasonably be produced (and I don't think it could) it wouldn't cover all the impact. |
03-19-2007, 10:33 AM | #212 | ||
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I do know that we in the U.S. have used prairie land to our advantage though... As for chicken raising methods....I wish just like everyone else that they weren't treated so harshly...I've seen plenty of viedos etc on how disgusting thier conditions are, and thats why I don't eat chicken. Besides, I'm afraid of avian flue... Hey, I'm not super pro-everything that businesses do is good, but neither do I think that a global warming scare is the way to stop them or change their ways. Isn't this what this is all about? A chance for the Dems and the environmentalists to point fingers and say "I told you so"? Quote:
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03-19-2007, 11:09 AM | #213 |
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"As far as you know," my dear,
is a short walk.
For most of the last 50 years the governments in South and Central America were handpicked by the US. That was the effective impact of the Monroe Doctrine. The Cuban Revolution was very surprised to be treated as the enemy...they thought they were duplicating the US in freeing themselves from Tyranny. However, shoe was on the other foot when we were begining to find ourselves as a Colonial power, and Cuba got its aid where it could. There are certainly modern examples of Central and Southern American elections that ran left, and of course the Sandinistas, but there's still plenty of capitalistic exploitation for even the finest connoisseur. |
03-19-2007, 11:51 AM | #214 | |
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I was wondering what you all think of this... btw Nurvingiel, at the end of the 5th paragraph of the quote it mentions reflecting light as a possible means of combating global warming. It's not saying it's a good idea , but I thought I'd point it out anyway.
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03-19-2007, 12:45 PM | #215 | ||||
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03-19-2007, 01:56 PM | #216 | |
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03-19-2007, 02:37 PM | #217 | |
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Whoo.
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03-19-2007, 02:50 PM | #218 | |
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I can't help but notice the suggestion that we, by merely living, are somehow evil for just existing. And animals and plants would be better off without us. Nietszche disagrees with you by the way, he thought we were the greatest things because we "willed" ourselves into existence. Naturally it follows that we are God
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03-19-2007, 03:40 PM | #219 | |
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If there is any absolute evil (which there isn't), it's self-deception.
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03-19-2007, 03:44 PM | #220 | |
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