03-27-2006, 03:34 PM | #201 |
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Total semantics. Truth is a human concept, period. It is reality that animals & plants use trickery to get through life, but they are not engaged in telling the truth or telling a lie any more than they can conceptualise the idea of truth VS. deception. The reality is, they do what they do to get through their lives. Only human beings label their behaviour truthful or deceptive. Not the animals and plants. It is a human concept.
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03-27-2006, 03:35 PM | #202 | ||||
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03-27-2006, 03:37 PM | #203 | |
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Jeesh, this is very freaky. I'm wondering now if all the debates I've had on this subject throughout all my time on Entmoot have been caused solely by different definitions of the word "truth". That's a horrific thought. I may have wasted tens of hours on a misunderstanding of semantics .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 03:39 PM | #204 |
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Funky semantics misunderstandings gone unchecked can do that, too, Lief, for real! I bet there's a few debates I've been in where there is an underlying current of unaddressed semantic misunderstanding causing confusion, and screwing with the nature of the debate.
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03-27-2006, 03:46 PM | #205 | ||||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 03-27-2006 at 03:47 PM. |
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03-27-2006, 03:49 PM | #206 | |
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 03:52 PM | #207 | ||
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well I'm glad we got that sorted out. except now I think were left without a topic...
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03-27-2006, 03:53 PM | #208 |
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Maybe Brownjenkins will argue that absolute truth (defined as the state of reality) is relative.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 03:56 PM | #209 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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Reality what a concept.
--Mork from Ork ----
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03-27-2006, 03:57 PM | #210 |
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Lol.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 03:57 PM | #211 |
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Well, I sure wouldn't say reality is relative. Relative to what? Nothingness? But nothingness, like the interior of a black hole or something, is still a reality. Existence, the state of reality, is not a relative to anything. It just - is.
Truth is a human concept, a way for human beings to categorise their experience and understanding of reality, to have things begin to make sense to them. A thing to be true or false is a human's prerogative to figure out, but truth does not exist without a human being thinking that it does.
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03-27-2006, 04:02 PM | #212 | ||
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if we started arguing black holes I'll bet TB would join and blast us to oblivion with some quantum physics...
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I was Press Secretary for the Berlioz administration and also, but not limited to, owner and co operator of fully armed and operational battle station EDDIE Quote:
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03-27-2006, 04:04 PM | #213 | ||
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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03-27-2006, 04:04 PM | #214 |
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We're not arguing black holes or quantum physics here, Rohirrim, nor are we having star wars fights. There is a Science thread for physics discussions, and there are all kinds of Star Wars threads for those sort of games.
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03-27-2006, 04:09 PM | #215 | |
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definition from Cambridge online dictionary Truth: noun 1 [U] the quality of being true: There would seem to be some truth in what she says. There is no truth in the reports of his resignation. You cannot question the truth of his alibi. And yet what he says contains at least a grain of (= a small amount of) truth. 2 the truth the real facts about a situation, event or person: But was he telling the truth? I don't suppose we'll ever know the truth about what happened that day. To tell (you) the truth (= Speaking honestly) I'm quite pleased he's not coming. 3 [C] FORMAL a fact or principle which is thought to be true by most people: It would seem to be a general truth that nothing is as straightforward as it at first seems. The entire system of belief is based on a few simple truths.
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03-27-2006, 04:15 PM | #216 |
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Truth and other concepts are subjective. Reality is subjective to those perceiving it.
Parallel Universe Theory negates that reality is just one thing. .....there is just ONE thing but only "Curly" knows it.
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03-27-2006, 04:19 PM | #217 |
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Lotesse, I'm glad you posted the dictionary definitions. The definition I adhere to in my posts about truth vs. relativity is definitions 1 and 2. Even definition 3 though says that it's merely talking about what is "thought to be true", which to me is the same as belief. So definition 3 is belief, in my view.
Definition 1 is talking about true statements. For example, "I'm sick with a cough," would be an example of a true statement (unfortunately ). There are true statements, but true statements cannot exist without people to say them. Like lies, they require the existence of life to exist. Then there is the truth of reality, which definition 2 is talking about. "The truth the real facts about a situation, event or person." That's the state of reality, and that's the definition of truth that I'm always using. Though as definition 1 points out, there are also true statements. These statements are statements that correctly convey the state of reality.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 04:19 PM | #218 | |
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Lief, I have to log off now, I have things to do, but I'll be back later on this evening. We can keep talking about truth & reality and stuff like this then, if you like. It's a pleasure debating with you today!
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~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Last edited by Lotesse : 03-27-2006 at 04:22 PM. |
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03-27-2006, 04:22 PM | #219 |
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Philosophy is cool .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
03-27-2006, 04:37 PM | #220 | |
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Physical "truths" are limited by our perception. Moral truths are limited by how we define them. If there were no humans, there might still be an earth, but there probably would not be "good" and "evil".
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Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever. |
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