02-28-2006, 03:51 PM | #201 |
An enigma in a conundrum
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...ty,,,,
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02-28-2006, 07:49 PM | #202 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I'm very happy to report this news: at the conference for those wishing to leave the homosexual lifestyle (and hold onto your hair, everyone! yes, of COURSE I realize that not all homosexuals are the same! but this refers specifically to lifestyle in terms of the context of the conversation, which means engaging in homosexual acts and the like - and YES, I would use the term "heterosexual lifestyle" in the exact same way!) (and THIS is why I had to come up with the word "urge" because of the IMO ridiculous stink over a simple term like "homosexual lifestyle", like anyone who uses that has some silly idea in their head that homosexuals are all exactly the same )
anyway... at the conference for those wishing to leave the homosexual lifestyle (the one where the signs were defaced and the church where it was going to be held at was egged), there were some great things that happened, the coolest being how the two sides got along so well and had warm things to say about each other because they BOTH took the initiative to reach out to each other. Here's some excerpts: Quote:
Now isn't that better than namecalling? and here's the link: http://www.family.org/cforum/news/a0039675.cfm
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-28-2006 at 07:52 PM. |
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02-28-2006, 07:55 PM | #203 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-28-2006, 08:30 PM | #204 | ||||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
You asked, "Is being heterosexual an urge, do you think?" and I answered, "in the same way as being homosexual or bisexual, yes, I think it is. Or to put it another way, I think that the desire for homosexual or bisexual expression is just as real as the desire for heterosexual expression." I hope it's very clear now. So no, I'm not trying to "label non-heterosexuality as a whole" at ALL as different in the sense of urges and how they often drive actions. And now I remember why the whole "urge" thing even came up - it's because of the strong (and IMO rather silly) reaction against the use of "homosexual lifestyle", like people think all homosexuals are identical or something . I'd use "heterosexual lifestyle" just as easily if I was talking about heterosexual urges and actions. But to try to cut down on the objections that usually crop up when using "homosexual lifestyle", I tried to come up with another term. Quote:
The question is, should a person give in to ALL their inborn traits, or some, or what? I think that NONE of us here would say that we should give into ALL of our inborn traits (for example, my inborn trait to be lazy). Do you think we should? Or just "certain" ones, as IRex suggests? Then who defines which "certain" ones we should give into? So why not just have everyone make their OWN decision about which traits they think is good and right to give into, and which they should strive against? What do you (and everyone else, btw) think about that? Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 02-28-2006 at 08:32 PM. |
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02-28-2006, 08:46 PM | #205 |
Elf Lord
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I don't know if I'll continue posting here in the immediate. I'll come back eventually for sure, but I need a break.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
02-28-2006, 08:48 PM | #206 | |
The Intermittent One
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02-28-2006, 09:01 PM | #207 | |
Elf Lord
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In answer to your random thought: We've got the word lesbian in memory of Sappho (hurrah for the female, homoerotic poet of ancient greece!), and her home island of Lesbos. Presumably we don't have a similar name for male homosexuals because Sappho's male counterparts lived all over the place. And this is what having greek history and psychology on the same day does to one's arguments...
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"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
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02-28-2006, 09:16 PM | #208 | ||||||||||||
Elf Lord
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Thanks for a great response, Jonathon . I'm afraid I'm going onto break from this thread for a while, so I won't have much more to offer until I return. I wish you all a good discussion.
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-28-2006, 09:21 PM | #209 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
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02-28-2006, 09:24 PM | #210 |
The Intermittent One
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i dont ever rcall any abuse in my life, not till after i came out, and that was the cause of said abuse, not the result of it...
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02-28-2006, 09:27 PM | #211 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
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02-28-2006, 09:30 PM | #212 |
Elf Lord
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That's why I was questioning the trends showing abuse and poor relationships as evidence of environmental influence. It would be a sweeping generalization, and it's one that confuses corellation with causation.
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"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
02-28-2006, 09:34 PM | #213 | |
Elf Lord
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Quote:
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." Last edited by Lief Erikson : 02-28-2006 at 09:35 PM. |
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02-28-2006, 09:38 PM | #214 |
Elf Lord
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But still fallible. Even professionals can get confused, or jump to conclusions. I would take that piece of evidence with a grain of salt, that's all.
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"Because it is my name! Because I cannot have another in my life! Because I lie and sign myself to lies! Because I am not worth the dust on the feet them that hang! How may I live without my name? I have given you my soul; Leave me my name!" - The Crucible "nolite hippopotamum vexare!" |
02-28-2006, 09:40 PM | #215 |
Elf Lord
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Believe that, if you will .
(Goes on a cruiseboat to Atharon) VACATION!!! From this thread . Not that it's an annoyance, of course; I love the discussion. It's just my head is worn out. See you all later .
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If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do." |
02-28-2006, 10:04 PM | #216 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
Last edited by The Wizard from Milan : 02-28-2006 at 10:06 PM. |
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02-28-2006, 10:14 PM | #217 |
Elven Warrior
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All this discussion of whether it is "nature or nurture", "can people change, or not" is often used a veiled way to enforce prejudice. Of course, there is nothing wrong in asking oneself these questions per se, but I am concerned when these questions are brought up by people who would not declare that all orientations are eqully ethically good, and all orientations are to be celebrated, and all orientation are to be awarded equal dignity and equal rights.
As I have said in the past, it is not that much about this or that specific question, it is about the purity of the heart of the person who asks the questions |
02-28-2006, 10:25 PM | #218 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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I agree that a person's heart is very important, but I'd be interested to see your opinion of how a person's heart should be judged.
Do you really think ALL orientations are to be celebrated and ALL orientations are equally ethically good and deserve equal dignity and equal rights? I know of groups like NAMBLA (north american man/boy love association) that think man/boy sex is fine and healthy. IYO, do you think their orientation should be celebrated? How about the traditional Mormons, who think group marriage is fine? Do you really mean "ALL", or do you mean those that you, personally, think are fine, or perhaps something else?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
02-28-2006, 10:49 PM | #219 | |
Elven Warrior
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Quote:
I do not classify pedofilia as an orientation. I think pedofilia is a crime and heinously immoral. I truly believe that a lot of children go through tremendous abuse while growing up (not necessarily sexual) and I think that that is inexcusable. I don't think polygamy is an orientation (although one day science might prove me wrong, who knows) but I think that polygamy should have all the same rights (etc., etc.) of couples. So Rian you are right in asking me to qualify what do I mean with "all orientations". I could have been more restrictive and said "hetero, homo, bi" as well as gender characteristics and expressions. The reason why I did not do the list is because variations of the gender and sexuality spectra are individuating on a frequent basis and I want to be inclusive of all these variations that at the moment I am not thinking of. |
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02-28-2006, 11:14 PM | #220 |
The Black Númenórean
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Hahhha. the first time I heard about NAMBLA was in South Park. At first I thought it was a spoof! Then I was sickened to find out that, holy crap! Its real!
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Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love but not your thoughts, For they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. |
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