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02-13-2005, 06:50 PM
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#201 | |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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02-14-2005, 12:31 AM
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#202 | |
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Elven Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: I dwell in possibility.
Posts: 247
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"...then how shall I Revive the dying tones of minstrelsy, Which linger yet about lone gothic arches, In dark green ivy, and among wild larches?" Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum. |
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02-14-2005, 10:32 AM
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#203 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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To the practitioners of abstinence:
Any of you feel like commenting on the nature of any presentations you may have encountered and the impact, if any, on your decisions? I get the sense from the presentations that I previewed in kids schools in Texas that it was even-handed. It was an abstinence based program but covered all the bases in my professional evaluation and stressed the importance of deciding for oneself and not yielding to social and peer-pressure. My kids thought so and so did the patients I saw (of the proper age and for unrelated medical stuff).
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
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02-14-2005, 04:32 PM
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#204 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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I'm not American, but I did have sex ed.
I do not have a high opinion of the sex ed, but it is not really biased. I think what actually made me want to stay chaste was the reaction of the other kids, and their desire to... you know. Maybe I'm being the ultimate non-conformist. 
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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02-14-2005, 05:01 PM
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#205 |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Janny, did they even mention abstinence in your sex ed classes? They didn't in mine - just stressed how we had a choice, should wait until we were ready, etc. The concept of abstinence-based/non-abstinence based programmes seems to be an American idea. Do you think?
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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02-14-2005, 05:06 PM
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#206 |
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The Blobbit
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Kent, England (Not Oxford! ... yet...)
Posts: 1,596
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Yes!
 That was right. We have a choice... I can't remember what it was... it was either we had sex or... something.You're right, we had to wait til we were ready. Ready being defined once as 'when you're old enough to buy condoms without being ashamed'. No, there is no 'basing' in British sex ed.
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Janny's Songs Janny's lyrics and random photographs Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes, our ancestors. It is the democracy of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who happen to be walking about. ~ Mercutio... erm, GK Chesterton. |
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02-15-2005, 01:14 PM
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#207 | ||
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Quote:
Ahhhhhhhh! That's better  Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-15-2005, 01:28 PM
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#208 |
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Lady of Letters
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England
Posts: 2,476
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Wow, I wish we'd had Snickers in our sex-ed classes. They taste much better than bananas.
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And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool. |
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02-15-2005, 02:28 PM
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#209 |
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Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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You werent supposed to eat the bananas
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-15-2005, 02:35 PM
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#210 |
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The Original Corruptor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,881
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..
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02-15-2005, 02:50 PM
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#211 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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You guys were lucky. Everything I learned about sex I had to learn from reading the Masters and Johnson research in the library...
Sex ed in the... 70's ... god has it been that long? forget it, I'm depressed now. Suffice it to say that it mostly involved charts on the wall and where babies come from, and it was taught by coaches between gym classes...
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-15-2005, 07:18 PM
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Co-President of Entmoot
Super Moderator 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,397
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Not that kind of Snickers sun-star! Andúril... that's a mental image I could have done without. *applies bleach to brain*
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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02-16-2005, 02:23 PM
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#213 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Darkness
Posts: 1,211
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Ooh.. a somewhat relevent article?
February 16, 2005; NY TIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST Bush's Sex Scandal By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF I'm sorry to report a sex scandal in the heart of the Bush administration. Worse, it doesn't involve private behavior, but public conduct. You see, for all the carnage in President Bush's budget, one program is being showered with additional cash - almost three times as much as it got in 2001. It's "abstinence only" sex education, and the best research suggests that it will cost far more lives than the Clinton administration's much more notorious sex scandal. Mr. Bush means well. But "abstinence only" is a misnomer that in practice is an assault on sex education itself. There's a good deal of evidence that the result will not be more young rosy-cheeked virgins - it will be more pregnancies, abortions, gonorrhea and deaths from AIDS. Look, I'm all for abstinence education. I support the booming abstinence industry as it peddles panties and boxers decorated with stop signs (at www.abstinence.net), and "Pet Your Dog, Not Your Date" T-shirts. Abstinence education is great because it helps counteract the peer pressure that often leaves teenagers with broken hearts - and broken health. For that reason, almost all sex-ed classes in America already encourage abstinence. But abstinence-only education isn't primarily about promoting abstinence - it's about blindly refusing to teach contraception. To get federal funds, for example, abstinence-only programs are typically barred by law from discussing condoms or other forms of contraception - except to describe how they can fail. So kids in these programs go all through high school without learning anything but abstinence, even though more than 60 percent of American teenagers have sex before age 18. In the old days, social conservatives simply fought any mention of sex. In 1906, The Ladies' Home Journal published articles about venereal disease - and 75,000 readers canceled their subscriptions. Congress banned the mailing of family planning information, and Margaret Sanger was jailed in 1916 for selling a birth control pamphlet to an undercover policewoman. But silence about sex only nurtured venereal diseases (one New York doctor, probably exaggerating, claimed in 1904 that 60 percent of American men had syphilis or gonorrhea), so sex education gradually gained ground. Then social conservatives had a brilliant idea: instead of fighting sex ed directly, they campaigned for abstinence-only programs that eviscerated any discussion of contraception. That shrewd approach succeeded. In 1988, a survey by the Alan Guttmacher Institute found that only 2 percent of sex-ed teachers used an abstinence-only approach. Now, the institute says, a quarter of them do. Other developed countries focus much more on contraception. The upshot is that while teenagers in the U.S. have about as much sexual activity as teenagers in Canada or Europe, Americans girls are four times as likely as German girls to become pregnant, almost five times as likely as French girls to have a baby, and more than seven times as likely as Dutch girls to have an abortion. Young Americans are five times as likely to have H.I.V. as young Germans, and teenagers' gonorrhea rate is 70 times higher in the U.S. than in the Netherlands or France. Some studies have claimed that abstinence-only programs work, but researchers criticize the studies for being riddled with flaws. A National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy task force examined the issue and concluded: "There do not currently exist any abstinence-only programs with strong evidence that they either delay sex or reduce teen pregnancy." Worse, there's some evidence that abstinence-only programs lead to increases in unprotected sex. Perhaps the most careful study of the issue involved 12,000 young people. It found that those taking virginity pledges had sex 18 months later, on average, than those who had not taken the pledge. But even 88 percent of the pledgers had sex before marriage. More troubling, the pledgers were much less likely to use contraception when they did have sex - only 40 percent of the males used condoms, compared with 59 percent of those who did not take the pledge. In contrast, there's plenty of evidence that abstinence-plus programs - which encourage abstinence but also teach contraception - delay sex and increase the use of contraception. So, at a time when we're cutting school and health programs, why should we pour additional tax money into abstinence-only initiatives, which are likely to lead to more pregnancies, more abortions and more kids with AIDS? Now, that's a scandal.
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I have harnessed the shadows that stride from world to world to sow death and madness... Queer haow a cravin' gits a holt on ye -- As ye love the Almighty, young man, don't tell nobody, but I swar ter Gawd thet picter begun ta make me hungry fer victuals I couldn't raise nor buy -- here, set still, what's ailin' ye? ... |
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02-16-2005, 02:47 PM
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#214 |
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Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Terrifying.... Truly terrifying...
Goes hand in hand with the earlier article posted about the administration promoting lies and deceptions to scare kids out of having sex. How very moral eh? Yes this bunch really is all about virtue and morals like they told us after the election... Does anyone here actually think abstinence should NOT be taught in sex education? Does anyone here actually think ONLY abstinence should be taught as sex education? I cant imagine we have anyone that extremist here. In either direction.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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02-16-2005, 02:56 PM
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#215 | |
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The Original Corruptor
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,881
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And that's only after a few emails!  |
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02-16-2005, 03:26 PM
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#216 | |
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Dúnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
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Wow...
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"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
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02-16-2005, 04:10 PM
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#217 |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Yeah, he has to imagine things ...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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02-16-2005, 04:13 PM
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#218 |
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Dúnedain Ranger of the North
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: The Ruins of Arnor
Posts: 892
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Funny guy, that sword...
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"I am an outlaw, I was born an outlaw's son. The highway is my legacy, on the highway I will run." |
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02-16-2005, 04:55 PM
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#219 |
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Elf Lord
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol
Posts: 3,114
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Oooh, Blackheart thanks. OP Ed pieces from the NY TIMES.
Let's see, 1988 only 2% of sex ed programs were abstinence only, now only 25% are abstinence only. Sure looks like they are TAKING OVER THE PROCESS since 75% of programs are not abstinence only! And what about teenage pregnancy rates during those years? or abortion rates? ACOG just reported that the lowest rate of PGcy among 14 - 15 year olds since 1955. Is that due to the success of abstinence only programs which delays intercourse by 18 months on average? Or is it due to more successful contraception by your average 14 - 15 yr old? Or both? The latest data on abortions show minimal but slightly lowering rates of abortion as well. Abstinence only or sex-ed of any stripe? or both? I vote both on each! Did it strike anyone else that reporting the failure rates of different contraceptive techniques in abstinence only programs is actually informing the student body of the existence of those other techniques? And the comparison of century old facts with current techniques. NOT MUCH OF A REACH THERE, IS THERE? I mean it's like the attitude of the country hadn't changed between the World Wars or anything! 'Sixties, what sixties? At least, we got sex ed in those gym classes, right! And the pre-1988 classes really had an effect. Surveys at the time indicated that condom usage pre-class was 50% and haphazard while after the classes it was 49% and haphazard. So, I am impressed if they have in either mode achieved a 60% consdom usage rate! What time warp jumped from 1904 to 1988! Oh, I see, it was the vast right-wing conspiracy that caused 75,000 LHJ subscribers to cancel their subscriptions... the visualize whirled peas effect then catapulted those subscribers into the control of the Bush administration appointments in 2001 to take this long to do whatever it is they did. And it was undoubtedly this same cabal who withheld antibiotic therapy for gonorrhea and syphillis back until WWII relented their hearts to release it?! And that 18 month delay in sex occurence, why that means nothing. Look it really didn't happen because 88% of them had premarital sex anyway! So if the 13 year old waited til 14 1/2, what ... she denied herself or he denied himself 18 months of sexual pleasure? Same for the 17 year olds? But then "A National Campaign to Prevent Teen Pregnancy task force examined the issue and concluded: "There do not currently exist any abstinence-only programs with strong evidence that they either delay sex or reduce teen pregnancy." " Which is it? And that last paragraph, where's the data to support that fear-mongering, hyperbolic speculation presented as fact? Gawd, I do love reading the OP-ED in the NY TIMES. The cartoons are not merely drawings there!
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 Last edited by inked : 02-16-2005 at 04:58 PM. |
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02-16-2005, 05:00 PM
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#220 |
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Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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Good points, inky!
You'd enjoy the LA Times, too
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?*"How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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