What religeon are you?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

AHA! That explains why I couldn't find where you'd said that! And also why I could have sworn you believed that all Gods/Goddesses exist...

Lief, if I remember correctly, she believes in people.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Coney
Why do you have to be very selective? Especially if you feel that all heavens and hells exist? Religions are only contractictory to each other if each relligion believes that there has to be only one truth, namely their own.

I think Starr Polish very well explained why it is important to be selective as to what you believe. The primary reason is: Afterlife. As you just said also .

Originally posted by Coney
Why just from an Atheist's point of view?....Plenty of religions in the world respect other's beliefs, just because someone worships one diety(ies) does that mean they should disregard the faith of billions of other people?

What do you mean by disregard? If you mean disrespect, I agree that it is very important to respect the beliefs other people have. If you don't mean disrespect but mean disbelieve, I think that my answer would have to be yes. You do often have to disbelieve many other peoples' beliefs. They can't all be right.

Originally posted by Coney
Plain and simple: Proof, there is none, this is why people have Faith.........All we have is stories and documents that have been passed down and changed countless times from generation to generation. I personally believe in several dieties, and I do pray to them...........but they only exist because I believe in them at the moment, I won't learn the truth until I'm dead and buried (or cremated as the case may be).

But that was only part of the discussion, my main point from your post was that you were claiming that "not all religions are correct".

1. There is no way you could know this.
2. I find this remark to be offensive in the extreme. Which religions are correct and why? In your opinion.........

That thing about faith wasn't the main point of my post either.

So basically you're saying that we do have the right to choose what hat we want to wear, because we won't know which is the right one while we're here on Earth. Correct?

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Lief, if I remember correctly, she believes in people.

I didn't hear that. I heard her say she believed in multiple gods and godesses, or one god and one godess, or something like that. I don't understand believing in people at all.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Coney
Lief you've quoted LFA's post as me.

Whoops! All fixed now .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally posted by Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn
Ok, ill probably get alot of sh*t for this...but this is how i thinkall religions that bleive in a g-d or g-ddess, are in someways the same. They all beleive in a spirit or other that has supreme power and just. Its just how people feel to interpret it, and which form it feels better for them
This is MY opinion. You dont have to agree with it..

You're right, I don't agree. But by no means does that mean I'm going to give you a lot of sh*t. Christians don't necessarily throw fire and brimstone at everyone who disagrees with them. We can be tolerant too.

Is it me, or is there a striking resemblence to that and EG's stance on religion? I wonder if there's a connection...

Lief, Nin's an AIM buddy of mine; I introduced her to the Entmoot. I seem to remember her saying to me that she believed in people (IIRC, not knowing I was a Christian, she proclaimed God to be a bunch of crap; I told her I believed very strngly in God, she told me she believed in people, and we agreed to leave religious discussion right there before we became unfriendly.)

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Coney
So either way there is going to quite a percentage of the population "all dressed up and nowhere to go" - so to speak

Anyway, time to get the thread back on topic methinks............because there is no way to definitivly answer this kind of discussion (well, there is one.......but no-one's made it back to tell us the truth yet )

Responding to this would be taking the discussion onto dangerous soil (Off-topic soil), and the answer should probably belong in the Metaphysical Discussion topic. However, for the sake of continuity I'll respond to it as briefly as I can in this thread.

Yes, you will be forced to believe that a lot of people are dressed up and going nowhere if you believe in one of those religions. However, I think that it is only decent for a God who is decent to give us something more to go on than faith, and I know that he has. And Christian faith (When used correctly) is very different from what Atheists and nonChristians assume it to be.

You make a basic assumption that there is no spiritual experience, but I've posted quite a bit about that mistaken assumption on the Metaphysical discussion thread.

If there is no spiritual experience, then you're right in calling what I said "drivel" and in saying I have no right to speak so piously or condescendingly, saying I'm right and that billions are wrong. If there is no way here on Earth to know that, then you're completely correct in everything you said. I maintain that you're incorrect though, and that spiritual experience does exist.

I doubt very, very highly that you can prove it doesn't exist, and I can't prove that it does exist. I have experienced it, so I know it does exist, and I'm not alone. This statement also is arrogant if I'm lying.

Sorry for forcing you into the uncomfortable position of either considering me a real jerk or a misguided individual with mental problems .

Maybe I should put as my signature "I'm not a jerk, and I am sane."

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Is it me, or is there a striking resemblence to that and EG's stance on religion? I wonder if there's a connection...

Sorry, who is EG?

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Lief, Nin's an AIM buddy of mine; I introduced her to the Entmoot. I seem to remember her saying to me that she believed in people (IIRC, not knowing I was a Christian, she proclaimed God to be a bunch of crap; I told her I believed very strngly in God, she told me she believed in people, and we agreed to leave religious discussion right there before we became unfriendly.)

I thought you were still talking about Legolas_Frodo_Aragorn. Sorry for the mistake .

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Eruvial Greenleaf (or Eruviel, not sure).

No problem at all.

[Lief Erikson]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
He's a she. And Im assuming since she went from a traditional monotheistic religion (judaism) to wicca that she simply feels the confines of wiccanism somehow fit her best and that being jewish does not. More so since her parents were reform and she probably didnt have the kind of intense indoctrinization that some of you may have had as young christians (this way or NO way!) that the door to exploring her spirituality remained unlocked and she opened it. But hey she can speak for herself on her own upbringing so Ill stop there.

We all grow in our spiritual self identity. I mean thats as normal as can be. And to be thinking about religion and spirituality in a self definitive kind of way at 13 Id say is a good thing but thats just me.

Not just you. I'd say it's very good also .

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Now as to your point about all religions being a "manifestation or interpretation of one truth" yeah thats exactly how I feel. You put that really well. Religion is a human defined skin on a much broader grander concept. And like skins on your desktop programs different people prefer different kinds. But often enough we feel most comfortable in the "skin" we grew up in. But some people once they reach a certain age have the ability to stand back for a minute and think about what direction (what skin) they want to go in if any.

Do you believe in any divine power? If not, what is the grand concept you think religion is a human defined skin of? Imagination? Moral correctness? Broadening ideas?

[Ninquelote]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Do you believe in a religion?

Nah, I'm neutral.

[Ninquelote]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson

I didn't hear that. I heard her say she believed in multiple gods and godesses, or one god and one godess, or something like that. I don't understand believing in people at all.

Nope, I believe in no God/dess. I believe in people because I believe people shaped humanity, people shaped moral codes and books and technology and it's people's devices, people choose, not God. People themselves shaped God, and we empower God. Without people to worship Him, God would not exist.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Told you.

So you believe, at any rate. I'm just the opposite: I believe without God, people would not exist.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Do you believe in any divine power? If not, what is the grand concept you think religion is a human defined skin of? Imagination? Moral correctness? Broadening ideas?

Im agnostic so I dont believe in anything. But I dont believe in nothing either. I believe only that Im unable to concieve of the "grand concept" as you put it. Its beyond my meeger human brain and beyond the context of the physical universe in my opinion. So in a way its moot. But like an echo off an unseen object we can make guesses that there is something beyond our conception out there. something more then what we can determine through our senses and through our current mathematical knowlegde. This something would be to you the christian god (thats your skin over it). to L her wiccan beliefs. To others its judaism or hinduism or you name the religion or spiritual belief. Its been with us since we emerged as a species a million years ago. And it will always remain with us unless we are able to grab hold of its essence by other means but I dont think we will. Knowing the mind of god is not possible for us. It would either kill us or pass through us unoticed.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Just curious: would you throw Satanism in there, too?

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
Just curious: would you throw Satanism in there, too?

sure. they are all the same to me. humans trying to clothe something that cant grasp with something they can. although satanism may be simply a reaction to christianity. ask a satanist.

[crickhollow]

My religion:
Follow Jesus, love people.

[Millane]

After reading Marilyn Mansons autobiography i have been half converted to Satanism in the fact that i agree with a lot of there principles...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Would I be correct in guessing that that is Modern Satanism, not "traditional" Satanism?

[GrayMouser]

Originally posted by Lief Erikson
Fine. All that I'm saying is that if you think it's the right religion for you, that implies that you think it's the right religion for everybody, unless you're saying that more than one religion is correct.

While that's true for salvationist religions like Buddhism, Islam and Christianity, is it necessarily true for all religions?

Jews believe that their religion is the right one, but they don't think that everyone should become Jewish, and it seems that Hindus would be the same- mind you, these are two religions I don't know much about.

[GrayMouser]

I really disagree with this "all religions are one under the skin".

All religions pose the same questions ; they all come up with different answers.

Or as someone ( Clifford Geertz?) put it:

"The problems, being existential, are universal; the responses, being human, are diverse."