03-14-2005, 03:20 PM | #201 | ||
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Why not give it a shot? *Ba-dum-tshh*
You might be pleasantly surprised. And in Canada they give you a doughnut afterwards.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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Last edited by Nurvingiel : 03-14-2005 at 03:22 PM. |
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03-14-2005, 05:50 PM | #202 | |
Quasi Evil
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Well this is interesting. I guess those crazy activist judges are at it again eh?
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03-14-2005, 06:50 PM | #203 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Y'know, IRex, this is a sensitive subject, and entirely dependant upon one's worldview. Would you please not name-call? ("the discriminators" ) I know you think I'm discriminating against people, but that is such a loaded word, that I wish you wouldn't use it. Could you please change your wording? That term is just loaded with hate. I would hope that at least you see I don't hate anyone.
I have loads of opinions about YOUR opinions and why you hold them but in these sensitive subjects, I really restrain my language when I talk about them, because I respect you as a person, and realize you are not trying to hate someone or look down on them (even tho YOU are discriminating in this area, too!), and I don't want a good discussion lost because of a careless choice of words. I agree that California probably has more than its fair share of twits in the general populace, but really, to have a judge throw out the majority opinion of the state is really rather arrogant, IMO. Why should one judge in one city trample all over the clearly expressed will of the good people of California?!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-15-2005 at 01:53 AM. |
03-15-2005, 02:12 PM | #204 |
Quasi Evil
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Because its descrimination to me. Plain and simple. Its glaringly obvious. I didnt qualify it as malicious descrimination. I would hazard a guess that the majority of those who believe its ok to descriminate against homosexuals do so not out of malicious intent but out of a combination of ignorance and cultural indoctrinization. And yes if you think IM ever being discriminatory please say so. You know very well I would have no problem with you calling it like you see it rather then sugar coating things and avoiding real communication. But frankly I dont see how in the world allowing others to have the same rights as one group (heterosexuals) could ever be mistaken as discrimination.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
03-15-2005, 02:19 PM | #205 |
Elven Warrior
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I want to reproduce two phrases from the California court ruling (Judge Kramer)
"The state's protracted denial of equal protection cannot be justified simply because such constitutional violation has become traditional," "Simply put, same-sex marriage cannot be prohibited solely because California has always done so before." These sentences are quite obvious and not particularly remarkable to me, but I post them because other people here think otherwise |
03-15-2005, 02:33 PM | #206 | |||
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...thus ensuing another round of 'is marriage a right or a priviledge' debate. (See all my previous posts on the matter. I think people already know where I stand on this whole issue... ad nauseum.)
Though I agree with IRex in principle, I understand where R*an is coming from with respect to wording. (My, this is a comfortable fence I'm sitting on.) I think an excerpt from the Wikiedia entry on discrimination is relevant here: (Follow the link to read the whole article if you want. Some other parts are also relevant.) Quote:
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-15-2005, 02:44 PM | #207 | ||
Quasi Evil
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Interesting that your definition specifically points out:
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Restricting gays from marrying is neither rational or fair.
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-15-2005, 03:44 PM | #208 |
Elf Lord
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I bumped the marraige thread.
I make rational arguments there, if you care to look.
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Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941 |
03-15-2005, 03:54 PM | #209 | ||
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Nice bump over there Inked. I posted.
I enjoyed your rational posts Inked. I made rational counter-arguments.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-15-2005, 03:55 PM | #210 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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The judge's comments are the kind of insulting remarks that, sadly, I see all too often (tho not always) from the liberal side. Reminds me of the comment from Michael Moore (IIRC) that everyone that voted for Bush was "stupid". People like these are acting in a closeminded and intolerant way, IMO - they actually believe that no one can think and reason and come to any other conclusion but theirs. Wake up and smell the coffee! People all over the world have different beliefs and are rational, caring people! People with different beliefs are not necessarily stupid! "It appears that no rational purpose exists for limiting marriage in this state to opposite-sex partners" - why don't you just call people with different opinions from yours "stupid" and get it over with? As I said before, that is the tack taken all too often (tho not always) by liberals. If they can't win over a majority vote by reason (lay out their arguments before the people and persuade them), then they resort to insults ("no rational purpose") and bullying (a judge overturning the majority vote of the entire state). Persuade us, people! This is a democracy. If you can't get the people of California to vote for your issue, perhaps you're wrong! But don't resort to insults and bullying.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-15-2005 at 04:14 PM. |
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03-15-2005, 04:11 PM | #211 | ||
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I don't think liberals (this is a very diverse group of people) insult opposing views any more than convservatives (this is also a very diverse group of people) insult the opinions of those that oppose them.
Just had to stick up for liberals there. I feel your pain R*an. As someone who is socially liberal (no not that way! ), and therefore a liberal, I've heard more than enough insults too. Not from you though. As a liberal, I do not find the opinions of those that disagree with me stupid. However, I am disagreeing with them for a reason. I may feel one or more things about their opinion - that it's: incorrect, misinformed, not applicable to today's society, not supported by relevant data or examples, based on poor management policies, or based on another opinion with which I disagree. (Depending on the extremety or number of these cases, I may also conclude that this opinion is stupid. ) Right... erm... here's your topic back.
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"I can add some more, if you'd like it. Calling your Chief Names, Wishing to Punch his Pimply Face, and Thinking you Shirriffs look a lot of Tom-fools." - Sam Gamgee, p. 340, Return of the King Quote:
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03-15-2005, 04:13 PM | #212 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-15-2005, 04:15 PM | #213 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
I'm also not saying that the vast majority of LIBERALS are insulting; just that the vast majority of insulting statements COME from liberals. That's a BIG distinction!
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! Last edited by Rían : 03-15-2005 at 04:30 PM. |
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03-15-2005, 04:18 PM | #214 |
The Intermittent One
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i think the term 'liberal' is mis-leading in itself
it seems to mean something different to americans than i would have it mean liberal, by it's very nature, supports freedom, choice and equality liberalism is central politics conservatism is right of centre socialism is left of centre communism is left wing fascism and national socialism are right wing (but very muddled) but i digresss...oo, a squirrel.... <runs off to chase squirrel with piece of bread> |
03-15-2005, 04:23 PM | #215 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Let me know if I understand your position on this: You think that other marriage restrictions, like age, closeness of relation, number of participants, and current marital status are fine to keep; right? If so, why, and what do you base your opinion on?
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-15-2005, 04:24 PM | #216 | ||
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-15-2005, 04:25 PM | #217 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-15-2005, 04:30 PM | #218 | ||
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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Quote:
It's just that I've found that calling a specific ACTION discriminating (for example), instead of calling the PERSON discriminating, is more accurate and less provoking, and makes the conversation less likely to erupt into anger, where no one can talk. Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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03-15-2005, 04:30 PM | #219 | |
Quasi Evil
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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03-15-2005, 04:39 PM | #220 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
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oh, I know what your reasons are, but it seems that this discussion is taking off again, so I was asking you to restate them for other people that are new.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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