11-12-2004, 03:58 PM | #201 |
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I really don't think Republicans know how Democrats think. It must baffle them that so many of us are vets. It must baffle them that a vet would be against war. But I can't say I understand how Republicans think either.
I just know that I am proud of Kerry for his service, proud that he spoke against the war after serving, proud of his years of championing liberal causes, and I wanted him to be the next President. I would have been proud to serve on his swiftboat, but I don't think they were big enough to need a Commisaryman. I believe if I had served on his boat, I would have had the fortune of serving under a brilliant lieutenant who devised the idea of turning the bow to face into the gunfire, making the boat narrower, and then charging straight at them, forcing them to abandon their gunposts. And I would have also been proud to march with him in the anti-war protests. I only got one medal, and I'm not likely to throw it to Bush (he has it already anyway). But I can understand why many of my fellow vets did throw them over the White House fence. They thought it was the right thing to do. I did march in my own town, and I marched against funding the Contras in Washington. So maybe I did march with him. And when he took down BCCI and conducted hearings on the Iran-Contra scandal, I was performing politically charged pieces towards the same ends in my hometown. As Humphrey Bogart said, "What do you mean? I've been a Democrat all my life!" So it is not true to characterize all Democrats as having a silly anybody but Bush campaign. It is not true that I was more motivated by anti-Bush sentiments. I wanted Kerry because I thought he was more moral in ways that I am afraid the other side will never see. I voted for a fellow Navy man, although he was an officer and I enlisted. Last edited by Elfhelm : 11-12-2004 at 04:00 PM. |
11-12-2004, 04:19 PM | #202 | ||||||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Also - you have to look at who watches the various media outlets. NPR for instance - if you look at the demographics - will show you that many of the people who listen to that hate Bush. So they won't believe anything when it comes to that. I bet many of the people who listen to NPR would NOT support the war in Iraq - even if it was 100% certain that Hussein had WMD, and was about to use them. I have heard MANY liberals say that even if hussein was ready to attack us - we should still wait until afterward to respond. Now if that is the majority of listeners of NPR - then that just shows the other extreme in the demographic - not that it shows that they are more "enlightened" and "educated". Quote:
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Just to note - so you don't think I'm full of **** here. Quote:
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11-12-2004, 04:27 PM | #203 | ||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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Let me quote it for you again... Quote:
BTW - my brother is fellow navy - my father was navy. It doesn't mean that any of them agreed with kerry - and my brother is currently in Afganistan. I also don't think it's surprising that there are democrats in the military - that's why when people drag out military supporters - it doesn't matter to me. I'm not voting for someone because someone ELSE feels the person is better - I'm voting because I feel the person is better.
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11-12-2004, 04:33 PM | #204 | |
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Yes, I've seen that part of the 9/11 Report before. It's inconclusive. Bush met with the Taliban when he was Governor. His father and bin Laden's step-brother were business partners. Surely you agree that this is also inconclusive. Some things are done out of diplomacy. There is not enough evidence to draw parallels to Stalin and Hitler in either relationship. |
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11-12-2004, 04:48 PM | #205 | |
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Actually, many of the kids in the service do not lilke whoever is Commander-in-Chief at the time of their service, especially enlisted men and women. War is Hell and it's usual the brass who gets the blame from the ranks. What about that lack of military service on the part of ranking Republicans? Does that matter to you? |
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11-12-2004, 04:51 PM | #206 | |||
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And I'm perfectly aware of diplomacy. So I guess it was a nice diplomatic - "let's get to know each other" type of thing that Bin Ladin and Hussein were just doing? A nice handshake - right? As for Bin Ladin's step-brother - which one out the many he has are you talking about? You do realize that a lot of the family had cut off all ties with Bin Ladin because of his fanaticism - right? BTW - I love how you just write it all off as just "it's inconclusive" - you know - most of the things in the report can be considered inconclusive - because the people on the commission were not actually there. Based on the evidence - they feel that it is accurate though. Quote:
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11-12-2004, 04:56 PM | #207 | ||
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But then again - Beor said that the war in Iraq is nothing like the war it's being portrayed on TV and he's shocked how they don't show any of the many good things going on there. Quote:
Btw - thanks. But my brother likes the armed forces and is planning on staying in and is working to be an officer. He really enjoys it.
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11-12-2004, 05:09 PM | #208 | |
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11-12-2004, 05:17 PM | #209 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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I think patriotism is relative - I do not think that it has much to do with the military aspects - but with other aspects. Was it right for Kerry to go and make those statements concerning his fellow soldiers - giving fodder to the north vietnamese - I don't think so. I'm not saying that he's unpatriotic - just stupid to make those statements. It's like the stupidity of CBS to air the photos of Abu Ghraib. It wasn't necessary and just gave fodder to Al Qaeda - they could have reported it with out the photos. It would soldiers who had NOTHING to do with that - including my brother - in harms way.
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11-12-2004, 05:22 PM | #210 | |||||
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I don’t see the travesty of picking one of a whopping TWO candidates based on not wanting the other one in office at all. Nor do I see anything wrong with being critical of your own candidate that you support and not worshiping him without question just because he has a big R in front of his name. You say you are insulted by the attitude of democrats thinking of conservatives as yee haws and brainless and then you turn around and say it’s a joke that they would not fully and completely support their candidate without question? Please. There were a lot of things about Kerry that I had issues with many of which REPUBLICANS had issues with TOO believe it or not. But head to head between the two of them I would have taken him 1000 times in a 1000 choices. No doubt. Im glad its apparently ok for liberals to be openly critical of things about their candidate while republicans are aghast at the concept. Makes me feel more… American…
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11-12-2004, 05:27 PM | #211 |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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You know what IR - you can imply that I'm not really American or that you're a better American and make the snide comment at the end of your post. In the past you have said i really don't support democracy - and freedom of speech - so I have nothing really to say to your post whatsoever. You want to imply that crap - go ahead.
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11-12-2004, 05:36 PM | #212 |
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oh relax already. im simply making a point about free thinking and what you had said earlier. do you think im really seriously accusing you of being unamerican. allow me to use your signature response of:
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11-12-2004, 05:38 PM | #213 | |
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I know about Dole. Didn't he get a purple heart for a self-inflicted wound? At least, that's what his biography says. So maybe that little band-aid the Republicans had at their convention was really for old Bob.
I assume you've seen this list, then? Quote:
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11-12-2004, 05:39 PM | #214 | |
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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BTW - I'm glad that Bush got a second term - it let's him follow through on his policy and plan. I think he will redeem himself - just like Reagan proved to his many detractors. I find it so funny to hear the democrats in speeches routinely speeking Reagans name when talking about great presidents of the 20th century. It'd great.
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11-12-2004, 05:48 PM | #215 | ||
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11-12-2004, 06:32 PM | #216 | |
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I'm sorry you don't care about the service of so many fine men. I think it is obvious from the list who did not serve and what they are asking of servicemen today. That does seem rather hypocritical to me. And I see that they were very smug about their little purple heart band-aid. Well, they should be because that's the closest they'll ever get to one!!! |
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11-12-2004, 06:45 PM | #217 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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For your information - I think it was in bad taste and shouldn't have been done either. I think it was partially overblown too - because as soon as the republican party knew about it - they told the person to stop. Quote:
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You know something else YOU ARE NOT in the military now. MY BROTHER IS. I think I should have MORE of a concern over what my brother is being asked to do than you. I don't care if they served or not. I don't think it matters who served and who didn't. We're at war - my brother is in the military - he's in Afganistan. They aren't doing anything that they didn't sign up for.
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11-12-2004, 07:04 PM | #218 |
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Cool. Many thanks to your brother and all the people who put their lives on the line for us!
And thanks for saying you think the purple-heart band-aid was wrong. It was totally offensive! The delegates who returned to my state a few days later were laughing about it and they held it up (AGAIN!) for the local news. So don't tell me the party put a stop to it. They should have made a public statement and instructed their delegates that it did not represent the party. They did not. The delegates were smug about it. The Oregon Veterans for Kerry were unable to get them to stop. Free speech and all that. So all I can assume is that the Republican Party did not care. What does my service have to do with this? patriotism The only patriotism I see from most of the outspoken Republicans on that like, like Hannity and Rush and O'Reilly, is the desire to shut up anyone who questions the decisions of the rulers of the country. When that is what the guys on the other list swore to defend. Can you not see my point? It couldn't be more obvious. The loudmouths and windbags are all talk no action. They were not willing to defend you and me. They are only willing to spew venom for seven figure contracts. Isn't that obvious? |
11-12-2004, 07:13 PM | #219 | |||
I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot
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[edit] You do seem to think that if you are in the military that that somehow makes you a BETTER American though - which I think is a bunch of bull. I'm getting ready for you to say that Amnerica should become like "Star Troopers" where the only "true citizens" were ones who were in the military. Quote:
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11-12-2004, 07:30 PM | #220 |
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Gee, they're not being paid seven figures a year to do it. Doesn't that make a difference? Yes I do think they are patriotic. And I think my own brother's conscientous objections (instead of running to Canada) was also patriotic.
But it is beyond obvious to me that some people are willing to use our troops to make themselves wealthy, and they pay loudmouths to call anyone who points out their war profiteering unpatriotic. It's happening every day. And that is the reason so many of us fear for the future of the country. This country was founded on certain principles. I agree. Those guys do not uphold them! They uphold the principles of those we have always fought. I love it when Bogie says in Key Largo "I thought we got rid of your kind in the war". But no, they are always cropping up, and we always have to root them out. We will eventually. I have hope. Well, I am done with the moot until Monday. If anyone wants to continue anything, email me. My name is Pete. |
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