09-28-2003, 01:07 PM | #2061 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
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Location: Indiana, USA
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09-28-2003, 02:03 PM | #2062 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
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Why do some religions think that if you live a life of no sin then [and only then] will you go to heaven? Nobody lives a life of no sin, everyone sins.
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
09-28-2003, 02:32 PM | #2063 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 6,343
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Quote:
Christ's nature coming into someone transforms them. It is written of by Paul as being a war between the flesh and its desires and the spiritual nature of Christ in us. When we ascend to heaven and come into God's presence, the earthly nature will be blown away forever. |
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09-28-2003, 05:27 PM | #2064 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
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09-28-2003, 11:23 PM | #2065 |
Lady of Lamedon
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere in the USA
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My friend (i don't know what her religion is) keeps blabering on about how I am going to hell because I sined, (I can't change her mind telling her that since I ask god to forgive me of my sins I am redeemed) and she and her family are going to heaven because they are perfect. It can get really annoying!
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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." Jesus scares the "hell" out of people! He rocks! http://linwe.proboards19.com/index.cgi |
09-29-2003, 12:21 AM | #2066 | |
Fëanáro's Fire Mistress
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Indiana, USA
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09-29-2003, 02:33 AM | #2067 | |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
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I read this somewhere, and I really liked it, so I thought I'd post it here:
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09-29-2003, 01:32 PM | #2068 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
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Re: The story of Bellavista
Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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09-30-2003, 02:16 AM | #2069 | |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
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Re: Re: The story of Bellavista
Quote:
Here are two more events that happened, in completely different places. People hated what a missionary was saying. They tied him to a chair and put TNT under it. The Christian began singing. They detonated the dynamite, and he was still singing, afterward. He was unharmed. Then there was a man involved in hiding Bibles from authorities. The authorities decided to torture him to death, so they placed him on a pile of boxes with a noose around his neck. He was about seventy or so years old, if I recall correctly. There were two guards watching him. He started preaching the word to them, but they laughed at him. He stood there for several days and nights, without rest, food or water. Finally, in the middle of a thunder storm, he fell off the pile of boxes. Instantly a lightning bolt fell and split the rope, so that he went unharmed. But lives can be changed. The life that is transformed by Christ is probably the greatest miracle. |
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09-30-2003, 09:40 AM | #2070 |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
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Location: somewhere else
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How about that guy in Poland that survived his parachute not opening.
I've tried to find Christ but what can I say, I'm an episcopalian. But seriously, I agree you're right about the positive effects spiritual awakenings for many. Personally I just like the cultural memes. I like the way I feel when I go to church. My blind faith thingy is broken so I can't beleive the whole mythology, but the lessons are nice.... and the music (most of the time)... and that candle smell... and we get homemade bread for communion. weee!!!
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
09-30-2003, 12:13 PM | #2071 |
Elf Lord
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ilha Formosa
Posts: 2,068
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And then there was the teenage couple in the car who heard on the radio about this psycho killer with a metal hook for a hand who escaped from an asylum, and the teenage boy wanted to make out but the girl said no, and when they got home the hook was hanging from the doorhandle of the car!
Just think if the girl had given into temptation instead of staying pure....
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill |
09-30-2003, 12:13 PM | #2072 | |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
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Quote:
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
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09-30-2003, 12:16 PM | #2073 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
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long post warning - I feel one coming on ... I think I'll be able to post a summary statement on suffering in about *checks watch* t h r e e h o u r s - you have all been warned...
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-30-2003, 02:03 PM | #2074 | |
Quasi Evil
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maryland, US
Posts: 4,634
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Quote:
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"People's political beliefs don't stem from the factual information they've acquired. Far more the facts people choose to believe are the product of their political beliefs." "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." |
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09-30-2003, 02:12 PM | #2075 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
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Quote:
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There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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09-30-2003, 04:54 PM | #2076 |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
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It would involve broccoli, of course.
Dirty old man. |
09-30-2003, 04:59 PM | #2077 | |
Lord of the Pants
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,382
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09-30-2003, 05:31 PM | #2078 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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*gets mind off of broccoli and on to suffering*
Trying again to summarize what I think is the Christian position on suffering: *decides to NOT answer the phone!* 1. God is eternal, all-powerful, all-knowing, holy, righteous, loving, and there is no evil at all in Him. 2. God created the universe, and declared it good. 3. God created man and woman, and declared them VERY good. 4. God created man and woman uniquely - they are the only beings that are created in God's image. And one aspect of this is that they have a large degree (but not an unlimited degree) of free will. 5. People are NOT, however, God; nor will they ever be God, nor are they capable of being God. God is unique, and His created beings (people) can never be greater than their Creator. This is a logical viewpoint - think about it, it makes sense. 6. People have, by the misuse of their free will, been the cause, both directly and indirectly, of the huge amount of suffering present in the world. Unless God were to have created people without free will, this possibility is inevitable, and sadly, it HAS happened. 7. The love of a robot is worthless. Compelled love is meaningless. God created us out of His love and for His love, and this is very good, but it necessitates our having free will. 8. As the quote said, God would not have created us with this free will unless He knew in advance what He would do to triumph over the suffering that would be one of the results of our sin. And from the beginning, it is clear that God had a plan for our redemption. And that plan is that Jesus would bear the penalty of sin, for everyone that chooses to accept Him. 9. Compared to the joys of heaven, the suffering here on earth is nothing - the Bible says there are no tears in heaven, and the whole Christian faith is just filled with joy, and there can be joy even in the midst of suffering (not happiness, but joy) because we know heaven is for eternity, and suffering is allowed thru the hand of a loving God. And suffering is a hard teacher that points out our sinful condition ... so that we may be saved from it. 10. There is no other worldview that makes as much sense as suffering than Christianity, IMO. And there is no other worldview that says as strongly that we must help relieve the suffering that we see. I welcome differing opinions and would like to discuss them. So basically, Christianity is very realistic - it deals with reality and has an explanation and a solution, both temporary and permanant, for the suffering we see in the world. It's no good to wish that the world were different - the world is the way it is. What are we going to do with this fact? Wishful thinking is a waste of time. We cannot arrange the universe to our liking, as we did not create it. And if we could, it would either (1) not be feasible, and/or (2) not be as good as God made it .
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-30-2003, 05:34 PM | #2079 |
Half-Elven Princess of Rabbit Trails and Harp-Wielding Administrator (beware the Rubber Chicken of Doom!)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not where I want to be ...
Posts: 15,254
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And I just saw Sheeana's reply, but I have to run pick up the kids from school, then root for my oldest son's football team (Rah! Rah!). Out of time again
I have so much more to say on the topic of suffering, but I just wanted to try to post a bare-bones outline of the Christian position.
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. I should be doing the laundry, but this is MUCH more fun! Ñá ë?* óú éä ïöü Öñ É Þ ð ß ® ç å ™ æ ♪ ?* "How lovely are Thy dwelling places, O Lord of hosts! ... For a day in Thy courts is better than a thousand outside." (from Psalm 84) * * * God rocks! Entmoot : Veni, vidi, velcro - I came, I saw, I got hooked! Ego numquam pronunciare mendacium, sed ego sum homo indomitus! Run the earth and watch the sky ... Auta i lómë! Aurë entuluva! |
09-30-2003, 07:33 PM | #2080 | |
Elf Lord of the Grey Havens
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 2,381
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by R*an
[B]9. Compared to the joys of heaven, the suffering here on earth is nothing - the Bible says there are no tears in heaven, and the whole Christian faith is just filled with joy, and there can be joy even in the midst of suffering (not happiness, but joy) because we know heaven is for eternity, and suffering is allowed thru the hand of a loving God. And suffering is a hard teacher that points out our sinful condition ... so that we may be saved from it. This means the central theme of christian salvation, that Christ suffered for our sins, is nor meaningful because his suffering was "nothing". My suffering (the majority of it)is the direct result of defective design. I've suffered more than christ and will die just the same. An eternity of pleasure will not justify shoddy workmanship. Quote:
Christianity is like democracy. It's the worst religion except all the rest. Neither is likely to provide a global solution to the world's (human) problems. We could change the world, and make it better than we found it, but we were doomed from the moment we were able the manipulate our environment, to destroy it. Christianity helps keep people from giving up and just being totally selfish (with the self-destructive long-term consquences).
__________________
There exists a limit to the force even ther most powerful may apply without destroying themselves. Judging this limit is the true artistry of government. Misuse of power is the fatal sin. The law cannot be a tool of vengance, never a hostage, nor a fortification against the martyrs it has created. You cannot threaten any individual and escape the consequences. -Muad'dib on Law The Stilgar Commentary |
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