Religious Knowledge Thread - Page 10

TwirlingString · 03-30-2003, 03:55 PM

nyah

*sulks* hate being wrong

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 04:15 PM

You sure it's the 1950s? I thought it was the 40s.

TinuvielChild · 03-30-2003, 05:28 PM

Eh, somewhere in there....should go look it up and be sure...

Heh heh. Sorry, yeah. Got a bit muddled there.

Coney's link a few pages back clearly states that it was the 1940s.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 05:43 PM

Coney rocks.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 09:50 PM

-meanders along, whistling innocently-

BUMP!

-dashes out of the thread-

TinuvielChild · 03-30-2003, 11:43 PM

Dare I ask what that was about?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 11:51 PM

Bumping it back up to the top. Just a desperate attempt to keep the religious knowledge thread alive.

TinuvielChild · 03-30-2003, 11:53 PM

Ah, yes.

More questions? More arguments? C'mon, people, keep the knowledge flowing!

....I meant that, you know....

Starr Polish · 03-30-2003, 11:53 PM

And since the actual practice of Wicca began in the 40s, it's easy to weed out people who truly follow it and those that are just in it since it's become a type of fad lately. Point in case:

A Wiccan girl at school and I were discussing (borderline arguing) about religion. She said something along the lines of how "Christianity has only been around for two thousand years, while MY religon has been around since nearly the beginning of time." Hmm...

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-30-2003, 11:57 PM

Hmph, that's not accurate.

I doubt it even is according to "the myth" that Coney's link spoke of.

Just curious - Did you set her straight on the matter?

Starr Polish · 03-30-2003, 11:59 PM

Yes, and then she asked if I had been researching up on her since I found out about her religion (we'd been friends for awhile). Bah, hardly. A year before I had been extremely interested in Wicca and nearly converted, but unlike the fad followers I had done a lot of research on the religion.

Starr Polish · 03-31-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TwirlingString
I heard that there were no pictures of the devil until the church ran into the wiccans and then suddenly everyone knew what he looked like...and there are a LOT of wiccan gods, the Green Man and Pan are just some of them.

The "traditional" view of devils and demons (red, goatee, horns, pitchfork and tail) are hardly accurate. Lucifer, or Satan, was described as God's most beautiful angel. I think elsewhere there is mentions of him being a musician and having pipes (like a pan flute), but I could be wrong and messing this up with something else.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-31-2003, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
The "traditional" view of devils and demons (red, goatee, horns, pitchfork and tail) are hardly accurate. Lucifer, or Satan, was described as God's most beautiful angel. I think elsewhere there is mentions of him being a musician and having pipes (like a pan flute), but I could be wrong and messing this up with something else.

Yep, the Anointed Cherub.

Yes, you're right there, though I'm not sure what the reference is, let me look it up...

Ezekiel 28: 13-15

Quote:

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou are the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou has wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in all thy ways from the day that thou was created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ah, I love KJV.

Speaking of Cherub, I have a question for Jews: Is the "ch" from Hebrew, as in Michael, cherub, cherubim, etc. pronounced as a "kh", like in Bach, and loch?

TinuvielChild · 03-31-2003, 01:26 AM

I'm not Jewish, but I'm pretty sure it is. "Baruch ata Adonai", for example - the "ch" there is pronounced almost exactly the way it is in German.

BTW, could someone of you people who actually knows the story of Lucifer and the Fall extrapolate on it for me?

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-31-2003, 03:11 AM

Sorry, I'm just doing a quick scan before popping off to bed, but I'd be glad to in the morning.

EDIT: I know about "Baruch ata Adonai", I'm just not sure about some of the others.

Gwaimir Windgem · 03-31-2003, 12:07 PM

All right, Lucifer. Lucifer was the greatest angel in the vast hosts of heaven; he was a living instrument of worship to God. So great was he, that in his heart pride began to grow, and he said within his mind, "I will ascend into the heavens, and my throne will be higher than that of God; I will be like the Most High". Basically, he plotted to dethrone God and replace him as the King of Heaven. One third of the angels followed him in his rebellion, and they made war against the forces of God, lead by Michael the Archangel. Lucifer's war failed, naturally, and he was cast out of heaven, his heart filled with a hatred for God and holiness. When he saw Man, the apple of God's eye, created in His image, he desired to wound the heart of God by striking at this, His most beloved creation. So, he deceived Eve and tempted Adam into rebelling against God, bringing Sin into the world and into them, and thus separating them from communion with God, much to the grief of both Man and God.

Any one else who knows of this particular matter is free to add to/correct this.

Okay, now I AM getting off!

markedel · 03-31-2003, 12:42 PM

The ch is the German "kh"

That's why nobody can actually pronounce Chanukah.

Insidious Rex · 03-31-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
The "traditional" view of devils and demons (red, goatee, horns, pitchfork and tail) are hardly accurate. Lucifer, or Satan, was described as God's most beautiful angel. I think elsewhere there is mentions of him being a musician and having pipes (like a pan flute), but I could be wrong and messing this up with something else.

Yes I have heard from many sources that the classic devil image was created by early christians to co-opt the ancient and very popular "horned god" image of the pre-christian pagan religions (he had antlers and hoofs and in some cases a tail and other animal like features). So suddenly one of the most popular religious figures became the ultimate personification of evil. A great way to extinguish the open following of the old ways. Co-opting pagan stuff was standard practice for those interested in taking its place it seems. Theres tons of examples.

Arien the Maia · 03-31-2003, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gwaimir Windgem
All right, Lucifer. Lucifer was the greatest angel in the vast hosts of heaven; he was a living instrument of worship to God. So great was he, that in his heart pride began to grow, and he said within his mind, "I will ascend into the heavens, and my throne will be higher than that of God; I will be like the Most High". Basically, he plotted to dethrone God and replace him as the King of Heaven. One third of the angels followed him in his rebellion, and they made war against the forces of God, lead by Michael the Archangel. Lucifer's war failed, naturally, and he was cast out of heaven, his heart filled with a hatred for God and holiness. When he saw Man, the apple of God's eye, created in His image, he desired to wound the heart of God by striking at this, His most beloved creation. So, he deceived Eve and tempted Adam into rebelling against God, bringing Sin into the world and into them, and thus separating them from communion with God, much to the grief of both Man and God.

Any one else who knows of this particular matter is free to add to/correct this.

Okay, now I AM getting off!

I have a question...where in the Bible is this story found? I can never seem to find it

But other than that, that's pretty much how I learned about the rebellion of Lucifer.

Starr Polish · 03-31-2003, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Co-opting pagan stuff was standard practice for those interested in taking its place it seems. Theres tons of examples.

Ah, yes, like the halos around the heads of the Holy Family (Mary, Jesus and Joseph). Also, I believe the idea of saints was introduced to help ease those who were used to living with idols in their houses into Catholicism (sp?). The medals and statues of the saints simply replaced the old idols of pagan gods. I'm not positive on this, but I'm almost positive it's true.

03-30-2003, 03:55 PM	#181
TwirlingString Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: My mother would say somewhere between the adult mystery section and the YA sci-fi Posts: 489	nyah sulks hate being wrong __________________ "The Astels are an emotional people. They cry at the drop of a handkerchief. Their culture is much like that of Pelosia. They're extremely devot and invincibly backward. It's been demonstrated to them over an over that serfdom is an archaic, inefficent institution, but they maintain it anyway--largely at the connivance of the serfs thmselves. Astellian nobles don't exert themselves in any way, so they have no concept of human endurance. The serfs take advantage of that outrageously. Astellian serfs have been known to collapse from sheer exhauston at the very mention of such unpleasant words as 'reaping' or 'digging'." ----------------------------------------------- “They lost him?!” Lupin asked , amazed. “Voldemort has been after Harry for 15 years, and then he misplaces him?!” Last edited by TwirlingString : 03-30-2003 at 04:00 PM.

03-30-2003, 04:15 PM	#182
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	You sure it's the 1950s? I thought it was the 40s. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 05:28 PM	#183
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	Eh, somewhere in there....should go look it up and be sure... Heh heh. Sorry, yeah. Got a bit muddled there. Coney's link a few pages back clearly states that it was the 1940s. __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-30-2003, 05:43 PM	#184
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Coney rocks. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 09:50 PM	#185
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	-meanders along, whistling innocently- BUMP! -dashes out of the thread- __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 11:43 PM	#186
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	Dare I ask what that was about? __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-30-2003, 11:51 PM	#187
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Bumping it back up to the top. Just a desperate attempt to keep the religious knowledge thread alive. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 11:53 PM	#188
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	Ah, yes. More questions? More arguments? C'mon, people, keep the knowledge flowing! ....I meant that, you know.... __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-30-2003, 11:53 PM	#189
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	And since the actual practice of Wicca began in the 40s, it's easy to weed out people who truly follow it and those that are just in it since it's become a type of fad lately. Point in case: A Wiccan girl at school and I were discussing (borderline arguing) about religion. She said something along the lines of how "Christianity has only been around for two thousand years, while MY religon has been around since nearly the beginning of time." Hmm... __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

03-30-2003, 11:57 PM	#190
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Hmph, that's not accurate. I doubt it even is according to "the myth" that Coney's link spoke of. Just curious - Did you set her straight on the matter? __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-30-2003, 11:59 PM	#191
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Yes, and then she asked if I had been researching up on her since I found out about her religion (we'd been friends for awhile). Bah, hardly. A year before I had been extremely interested in Wicca and nearly converted, but unlike the fad followers I had done a lot of research on the religion. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

03-31-2003, 01:26 AM	#194
TinuvielChild Padawan Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Barony of Carolingia Posts: 2,176	I'm not Jewish, but I'm pretty sure it is. "Baruch ata Adonai", for example - the "ch" there is pronounced almost exactly the way it is in German. BTW, could someone of you people who actually knows the story of Lucifer and the Fall extrapolate on it for me? __________________ There are only four questions of value in life: What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for? What is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same: ONLY LOVE. Dance as though nobody's watching. Sing as though nobody's listening. Dream as though you'll live forever. Live as though you'll die tomorrow. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO and proud! FRODO LIVES!!!!!

03-31-2003, 03:11 AM	#195
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	Sorry, I'm just doing a quick scan before popping off to bed, but I'd be glad to in the morning. EDIT: I know about "Baruch ata Adonai", I'm just not sure about some of the others. __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle Last edited by Gwaimir Windgem : 03-31-2003 at 03:15 AM.

03-31-2003, 12:07 PM	#196
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	All right, Lucifer. Lucifer was the greatest angel in the vast hosts of heaven; he was a living instrument of worship to God. So great was he, that in his heart pride began to grow, and he said within his mind, "I will ascend into the heavens, and my throne will be higher than that of God; I will be like the Most High". Basically, he plotted to dethrone God and replace him as the King of Heaven. One third of the angels followed him in his rebellion, and they made war against the forces of God, lead by Michael the Archangel. Lucifer's war failed, naturally, and he was cast out of heaven, his heart filled with a hatred for God and holiness. When he saw Man, the apple of God's eye, created in His image, he desired to wound the heart of God by striking at this, His most beloved creation. So, he deceived Eve and tempted Adam into rebelling against God, bringing Sin into the world and into them, and thus separating them from communion with God, much to the grief of both Man and God. Any one else who knows of this particular matter is free to add to/correct this. Okay, now I AM getting off! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

03-31-2003, 12:42 PM	#197
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	The ch is the German "kh" That's why nobody can actually pronounce Chanukah. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Discussion Thread: Nomads from the East	Nurvingiel	RPG Forum	83	02-21-2005 07:23 PM
The Guilty Thread	Lalaith_Elf	General Messages	8	03-14-2004 11:41 AM