Elijah Wood - a bit of a weirdo? - Page 10

Gerbil · 03-02-2002, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Tolkien's religious faith is what gives LOTR its beauty, hope, and everything that stirs the heart and makes us love the LOTR. To think otherwise is to have a false impression of Christianity. . .

I think to believe what you've just said though relies on a false impression of how most people view both religion and LotR.

If you wish to believe I love LotR because of it's Christian background, then you are free to do so.

You however, 100% completely wrong. I specifically and intentionally have never read anything religious into it. It stands alone as a unique work of fiction. FICTION. Not RELIGIOUS fiction.

Once again the emphasis must be placed on what is in there because of Tolkien's background, and what is in there because he intentionally placed it there. I do not believe he placed anything intentionally in there.

His greatest nod to his religious backgrounds are twofold:

1) He never really refers to anyone as God or Gods
2) There is never any mention of religion - other than perhaps the naughty Numenorians worshiping Melkor just before the end of SA.

That's pretty much it really.

LuthienTinuviel · 03-02-2002, 12:33 PM

im not much for religion, but i liked LOTR. hmm i guess i don't read between the lines.

actually, to be totally honest to myself, i prolly wouldn't have picked up the books if they were known for being religous.
terrible to miss out on that.

so! thank god for underlying themes, eh?

Entlover · 03-02-2002, 05:43 PM

Luthien, I don't like religious books either; they tend to be boring. But LOTR falls into the same category as The Princess and Curdie by MacDonald, The Narnia books by C.S. Lewis, and Charles Willliams' spiritual thrillers. You can call them all fantasies, they don't specifically mention God, but they are all based on a Christian conception of the universe. Which makes them closer to reality than most realistic fiction.
No, Gerbil, I don't claim that you like LOTR because of its Christian background - that would probably be a turnoff for lots of people. I think that its Xtian background gives it what makes it great.
I think you are mistaken, and that Tolkien did put Xtian references into it on purpose. I don't want to spoil it for you, and you can certainly ignore them if you choose, but here are some examples (only some - there are more.)
Galadriel is a type (i.e. stands for) of the Virgin Mary
Gandalf, when he sacrifices himself to save his friends, is a type of Christ.
Frodo, when he bears the burden of the ring, is a symbol of the Xtian who bears his cross (daily burdens) and also of Christ.
waybread is a symbol of the Eucharist. Sorry, but there it is.

samwise of the shire · 03-02-2002, 06:22 PM

Well there is actually ALOT of relegion in LOTR Gerbil. Not just in the characters either. In the places and things too. Sting for instance is a sword. BUT when orcs or anything else evil is around it REVEALS that evil to the one who bears it by glowing and so gives them a warning about the empending danger so they can AVOID it. For Chrsitians we would say Sting is a representation of the Bible. I dont care WHAT you say but it's helped me more times than I can count in keeping me out of trouble.
The Battle Plains are dead and brown and just YUCK but when Aragorn becomes king then dont the whole eastern lands start flowering and stuff because it's now Gondor and can be cultivated and farmed? I think I read that somwhere. Anyway one of the main things that Chrsitians believe is that Jesus will come back to be king and when he does the sickness of the earth is gonna be wiped away and then it's gonna flower and be cultivated because the king has returned.
So there is ALOT of Chrsitian themes in those books. You just have to look for them unlike in the Narnia Chronicles you just open a book and the first thing you see is like a Chrsitian theme.
That's what's one of the cool things aobut LOTR is you just dont run into them like you would a meticulously clean glass sliding door(I did that once and only one words describes the experience OW), you have to LOOK for them and you get alot more out of doing so.
Sam
Ps. Hey Entlover you a Chrsitian? If you are I'm glad we'r eon the same boat. And welcome to Entmoot.

Gerbil · 03-02-2002, 06:22 PM

Ah but if I hadn't known those things does it make the work any less great? Of course not.

So meaning implied or otherwise - it's not that this work has a religious undercurrent that makes it great.
I'm sorry, and I don't want to belittle your religious beliefs, but claiming that his work is great because of the religious themes is, I think, inaccurate.

What about other authors who have created great works with no religious backgrounds? How about Frank Herbert? Greg Bear? Heck, even Terry Pratchett?

Are you saying their works are less because they are not written by a Christian believer?

I'm just trying to work out exactly what you mean - your implication is that Tolkien's work is great because he's a Catholic and it showed through in his work.

Nibs · 03-02-2002, 07:10 PM

I find it extremely amusing how I can look at the original post in a thread, then look at the most recent one and the subjects are completely different (the fact that the author is the same in this case makes it even more amusing).

I'm amused very easily... can you tell? Hey! The guy next to me has more hair on his arms than his head!

Rána Eressëa · 03-02-2002, 09:09 PM

Sheesh, people, not another debate on whether or not there's Christian sybomlic meanings/themes in LOTR again. Honestly, it's only there if you think it is. Now can we switch back to Gerbil thinking Elijah is a weirdo?

Gerbil · 03-02-2002, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rogue Elf
Sheesh, people, not another debate on whether or not there's Christian sybomlic meanings/themes in LOTR again. Honestly, it's only there if you think it is.

Actually, that's not 100% true and I now stand slightly corrected.
Reading his letters proves this. But never mind. The books are still good. And the movie too - especially Arwen!

But not that Elijah - he's a bit of a weirdo.

Back on thread!

Rána Eressëa · 03-02-2002, 10:16 PM

What I meant by that is: it's going to be there if you think it's there. Even if Tolkien didn't mention it or did, people are going to add more to that. Sorry, should've been more clear.

BTW, we're back on topic! Yay! Elijah isn't weird...he's just unique

Then again, most of us tend to fit into that category

FrodoFriend · 03-02-2002, 11:04 PM

Gerbil, sure there can be "uniquely weird ones"! Each one is weird in his own unique way. There are infinite ways to be weird, after all, and since no two are the same, they're all unique.

Um, I don't think there are as many Christian themes in LotR as Sam says. An underlying Christian morality and sense of values, yeah, but Sting doesn't represent the Bible. It's not an allegory, as Tolkien said himself more than once.

I have a mosquito bite on my EAR!!! And sunburn everywhere.

Hmm, wonder if Elijah likes scarlet women?

Laurelyn · 03-02-2002, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerbil
The books are still good. And the movie too - especially Arwen!

Gerbil . . . you're sure you're not the wierdo here? Arwen in the movies . . . *shudders* "If you want him. come and claim him . . ." No. Not good, IMHHO. Death to cheesy lines!

luinilwen · 03-03-2002, 03:15 AM

i still find it amusing that gerbil thinks ew is a bit of a wierdo. a slight case of the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me

buuut girls if you want short wierdos to perve on OMG hans "yummy" matheson! i watched "the mists of avalon" about a week ago and king arthur's bastard son mordred is hot hot hot! (oh yeah the movie's really interesting too. long but interesting. beware christians it is a pagan movie

)

pics of him are on imdb here: http://us.imdb.com/PGallery?Matheson,+Hans&source=ss

enjoy

Gerbil · 03-03-2002, 07:54 AM

I am NOT weird.

I just happen, unlike all of you, to be able to recognise acting at it's finest.

Arwen / Liv Tyler is an actress of impeccable talent. She fills the screen with the very essence of elvishness, and her recantation of Elvish is damn near perfect. I believe that Tolkien, if he were alive, would agree she embodies not only the realities, but the spirit of Arwen.

Not only that, but she's a hottie, a cutie, a babe, she's schwing!

PS - since some people appear to have difficulties understanding the tones of my posts, some or all of the above may in fact NOT be what I think.

FrodoFriend · 03-03-2002, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luinilwen
buuut girls if you want short wierdos to perve on OMG hans "yummy" matheson! i watched "the mists of avalon" about a week ago and king arthur's bastard son mordred is hot hot hot! (oh yeah the movie's really interesting too. long but interesting. beware christians it is a pagan movie )

pics of him are on imdb here: http://us.imdb.com/PGallery?Matheson,+Hans&source=ss

enjoy

Oooh, Mordred! I love that guy! Definitely my favorite Arthurian character. I can't believe I missed Mists of Avalon!

I had no idea there was a TV movie until I watched the Golden Globes, and now I'm kicking myself for not paying attention. *kicks herself* Grrrr!

samwise of the shire · 03-03-2002, 06:41 PM

I think that Gerbil is talking about how pretty Arwen is and you must admit that she IS pretty even though she sounds like a git in real life.
My favorite Arthurian character? Hmmmmmm. I would have to say Leonett the Savage Damsel and Leonesse her sister. That is the ONLY Arthurian story where they dont screw around with each other, where it actually ends up in NORMAL marriages with the couples staying FAITHFUL to each other. You should read the Savage Damsel and the Dwarf by Gerald Morris. THAT is a good book. VERY good indeed. And FUNNY!
This is a question I've wanted to ask you Gerbil. How do you know Elijah Wood SMELLS weird?Did you meet him somewhere and ask what he smells like or what? Or are you FRIENDS with him? Or did you find a magazine somewhere that said"this is what Elijah Wood smells like"? Just wondering.
Sam

Comic Book Guy · 03-03-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

I think that Gerbil is talking about how pretty Arwen is and you must admit that she IS pretty even though she sounds like a git in real life.
My favorite Arthurian character? Hmmmmmm. I would have to say Leonett the Savage Damsel and Leonesse her sister. That is the ONLY Arthurian story where they dont screw around with each other, where it actually ends up in NORMAL marriages with the couples staying FAITHFUL to each other. You should read the Savage Damsel and the Dwarf by Gerald Morris. THAT is a good book. VERY good indeed. And FUNNY!
This is a question I've wanted to ask you Gerbil. How do you know Elijah Wood SMELLS weird?Did you meet him somewhere and ask what he smells like or what? Or are you FRIENDS with him? Or did you find a magazine somewhere that said"this is what Elijah Wood smells like"? Just wondering.

Here is a question I would like to ask you, why do you think she sounds like a Git in real life? Did you meet her somewere and ask what she if she was a git or what? Are you friends with her? Or did you find a Magazine somewhere that said "Liv Tyler is a git"? Just Wondering.

luinilwen · 03-03-2002, 08:23 PM

*ignoring liv/elijah related posts*

frodofriend: i rented the mists of avalon from my local video store. check it out - it's worth a try.

elijah wood combs his bum hairs. i know this because i saw his apparition in my burrito and he told me himself! bahaha!

Gerbil · 03-03-2002, 08:32 PM

Samwise, don't want to disagree with you, but the 'joke' of my post was that none of what I wrote about Arwen was what I actually believe - the disclaimer at the bottom about 'part or all of this post may not be true' was to be a clue

Personally I think she's a bit ugly, and when I've seen her on TV she has managed to look even pigger than before.

Quote:

where it actually ends up in NORMAL marriages with the couples staying FAITHFUL to each other

I'd also comment that in quite a large proportion of marriages I'd wager that one or both of the partners aren't faithful

As for Elijah smelling weird, well I didn't really think it necessary to clarify it, but I'm just being critical to stir you girls up - I really didn't think you'd take me literally!

Quote:

why do you think she sounds like a Git in real life?

I'm with Samwise on this one. I met a git the other day, and I told her she sounded like a right Liv Tyler

Tanoliel · 03-03-2002, 10:09 PM

Good Lord.
This was a bunch of interesting posts to read...
I'm probably weird for actually reading them all...oh well. And Gerbil, you MUSt clarify your adjectives...see, "weird" and "freaky" are two totally different things. In your opinion, as I see it, EW is freaky. I'm weird. There's a difference..

Though I think EW is weird, and therefore very cool.

And I agree....best in the party scene! Cute! And yeah...the eyes....*sigh* But, well, disregarding all that, Sam is my favoritest (I KNOW that's not a word) character and if i could I would take Rosie's place...
BUT that is totally off topic so never mind.
Wait a sec...this whole thread has so many topics it's hard to be off it...*sigh* never mind. I'm making no sense.
And Arwen....well...she was okay. I mean, she wasn't AWFUL (though THAT LINE was, yarghghgh, I hate it), but she wasn't awesome either). Personally I think she looks way better in her Arwen costume/wig/etc than in real life...and my friend agrees with me. Not that it matters, since personally i couldn't care less about Arwen...
ANYWAY. Topics at hand? I don't even remember...right...Elijah Wood. That's it. His eyes.... (heehee...) and Sam! Okay. That was me...
In conclusion: Elijah Wood IS cute, and I think he's an awesome Frodo...but gimme Sam any day!

-tano

FrodoFriend · 03-03-2002, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by luinilwen
frodofriend: i rented the mists of avalon from my local video store. check it out - it's worth a try.

elijah wood combs his bum hairs. i know this because i saw his apparition in my burrito and he told me himself! bahaha!

Did he let you watch?? D'you think he'd let me watch?

j/k. Mists of Avalon, here I come!

03-02-2002, 12:33 PM	#182
LuthienTinuviel protector of orphaned rabbits Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kalamazoo... yes, its a real place! Posts: 1,236	im not much for religion, but i liked LOTR. hmm i guess i don't read between the lines. actually, to be totally honest to myself, i prolly wouldn't have picked up the books if they were known for being religous. terrible to miss out on that. so! thank god for underlying themes, eh? __________________

03-02-2002, 06:22 PM	#184
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	Well there is actually ALOT of relegion in LOTR Gerbil. Not just in the characters either. In the places and things too. Sting for instance is a sword. BUT when orcs or anything else evil is around it REVEALS that evil to the one who bears it by glowing and so gives them a warning about the empending danger so they can AVOID it. For Chrsitians we would say Sting is a representation of the Bible. I dont care WHAT you say but it's helped me more times than I can count in keeping me out of trouble. The Battle Plains are dead and brown and just YUCK but when Aragorn becomes king then dont the whole eastern lands start flowering and stuff because it's now Gondor and can be cultivated and farmed? I think I read that somwhere. Anyway one of the main things that Chrsitians believe is that Jesus will come back to be king and when he does the sickness of the earth is gonna be wiped away and then it's gonna flower and be cultivated because the king has returned. So there is ALOT of Chrsitian themes in those books. You just have to look for them unlike in the Narnia Chronicles you just open a book and the first thing you see is like a Chrsitian theme. That's what's one of the cool things aobut LOTR is you just dont run into them like you would a meticulously clean glass sliding door(I did that once and only one words describes the experience OW), you have to LOOK for them and you get alot more out of doing so. Sam Ps. Hey Entlover you a Chrsitian? If you are I'm glad we'r eon the same boat. And welcome to Entmoot. __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA... Last edited by samwise of the shire : 03-02-2002 at 06:23 PM.

03-02-2002, 06:22 PM	#185
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	Ah but if I hadn't known those things does it make the work any less great? Of course not. So meaning implied or otherwise - it's not that this work has a religious undercurrent that makes it great. I'm sorry, and I don't want to belittle your religious beliefs, but claiming that his work is great because of the religious themes is, I think, inaccurate. What about other authors who have created great works with no religious backgrounds? How about Frank Herbert? Greg Bear? Heck, even Terry Pratchett? Are you saying their works are less because they are not written by a Christian believer? I'm just trying to work out exactly what you mean - your implication is that Tolkien's work is great because he's a Catholic and it showed through in his work. __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

03-02-2002, 07:10 PM	#186
Nibs Head Hollara Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 751	I find it extremely amusing how I can look at the original post in a thread, then look at the most recent one and the subjects are completely different (the fact that the author is the same in this case makes it even more amusing). I'm amused very easily... can you tell? Hey! The guy next to me has more hair on his arms than his head! __________________ "People used to ring up and say 'Don't quit your day job' or 'sell your synth', but the joke's on them: we were fired and the synth is broken!" -John Flansburgh from They Might Be Giants Ever heard of Mormons? I'm one. Click here to know more about us.

03-02-2002, 10:16 PM	#189
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	What I meant by that is: it's going to be there if you think it's there. Even if Tolkien didn't mention it or did, people are going to add more to that. Sorry, should've been more clear. BTW, we're back on topic! Yay! Elijah isn't weird...he's just unique Then again, most of us tend to fit into that category Last edited by Rána Eressëa : 03-02-2002 at 10:17 PM.

03-02-2002, 05:43 PM	#183
Entlover Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 463	Luthien, I don't like religious books either; they tend to be boring. But LOTR falls into the same category as The Princess and Curdie by MacDonald, The Narnia books by C.S. Lewis, and Charles Willliams' spiritual thrillers. You can call them all fantasies, they don't specifically mention God, but they are all based on a Christian conception of the universe. Which makes them closer to reality than most realistic fiction. No, Gerbil, I don't claim that you like LOTR because of its Christian background - that would probably be a turnoff for lots of people. I think that its Xtian background gives it what makes it great. I think you are mistaken, and that Tolkien did put Xtian references into it on purpose. I don't want to spoil it for you, and you can certainly ignore them if you choose, but here are some examples (only some - there are more.) Galadriel is a type (i.e. stands for) of the Virgin Mary Gandalf, when he sacrifices himself to save his friends, is a type of Christ. Frodo, when he bears the burden of the ring, is a symbol of the Xtian who bears his cross (daily burdens) and also of Christ. waybread is a symbol of the Eucharist. Sorry, but there it is.

03-02-2002, 09:09 PM	#187
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Sheesh, people, not another debate on whether or not there's Christian sybomlic meanings/themes in LOTR again. Honestly, it's only there if you think it is. Now can we switch back to Gerbil thinking Elijah is a weirdo?

03-02-2002, 11:04 PM	#190
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Gerbil, sure there can be "uniquely weird ones"! Each one is weird in his own unique way. There are infinite ways to be weird, after all, and since no two are the same, they're all unique. Um, I don't think there are as many Christian themes in LotR as Sam says. An underlying Christian morality and sense of values, yeah, but Sting doesn't represent the Bible. It's not an allegory, as Tolkien said himself more than once. I have a mosquito bite on my EAR!!! And sunburn everywhere. Hmm, wonder if Elijah likes scarlet women? __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

03-03-2002, 03:15 AM	#192
luinilwen Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney AUSTRALIA Posts: 368	i still find it amusing that gerbil thinks ew is a bit of a wierdo. a slight case of the pot calling the kettle black, if you ask me buuut girls if you want short wierdos to perve on OMG hans "yummy" matheson! i watched "the mists of avalon" about a week ago and king arthur's bastard son mordred is hot hot hot! (oh yeah the movie's really interesting too. long but interesting. beware christians it is a pagan movie ) pics of him are on imdb here: http://us.imdb.com/PGallery?Matheson,+Hans&source=ss enjoy

03-03-2002, 07:54 AM	#193
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	I am NOT weird. I just happen, unlike all of you, to be able to recognise acting at it's finest. Arwen / Liv Tyler is an actress of impeccable talent. She fills the screen with the very essence of elvishness, and her recantation of Elvish is damn near perfect. I believe that Tolkien, if he were alive, would agree she embodies not only the realities, but the spirit of Arwen. Not only that, but she's a hottie, a cutie, a babe, she's schwing! PS - since some people appear to have difficulties understanding the tones of my posts, some or all of the above may in fact NOT be what I think. __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

03-03-2002, 06:41 PM	#195
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	I think that Gerbil is talking about how pretty Arwen is and you must admit that she IS pretty even though she sounds like a git in real life. My favorite Arthurian character? Hmmmmmm. I would have to say Leonett the Savage Damsel and Leonesse her sister. That is the ONLY Arthurian story where they dont screw around with each other, where it actually ends up in NORMAL marriages with the couples staying FAITHFUL to each other. You should read the Savage Damsel and the Dwarf by Gerald Morris. THAT is a good book. VERY good indeed. And FUNNY! This is a question I've wanted to ask you Gerbil. How do you know Elijah Wood SMELLS weird?Did you meet him somewhere and ask what he smells like or what? Or are you FRIENDS with him? Or did you find a magazine somewhere that said"this is what Elijah Wood smells like"? Just wondering. Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

03-03-2002, 08:23 PM	#197
luinilwen Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Sydney AUSTRALIA Posts: 368	ignoring liv/elijah related posts frodofriend: i rented the mists of avalon from my local video store. check it out - it's worth a try. elijah wood combs his bum hairs. i know this because i saw his apparition in my burrito and he told me himself! bahaha!

03-03-2002, 10:09 PM	#199
Tanoliel Eccentric Chocolate Crow Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The Emerald City--Seattle, WA Posts: 1,861	Good Lord. This was a bunch of interesting posts to read... I'm probably weird for actually reading them all...oh well. And Gerbil, you MUSt clarify your adjectives...see, "weird" and "freaky" are two totally different things. In your opinion, as I see it, EW is freaky. I'm weird. There's a difference.. Though I think EW is weird, and therefore very cool. And I agree....best in the party scene! Cute! And yeah...the eyes....sigh But, well, disregarding all that, Sam is my favoritest (I KNOW that's not a word) character and if i could I would take Rosie's place... BUT that is totally off topic so never mind. Wait a sec...this whole thread has so many topics it's hard to be off it...sigh never mind. I'm making no sense. And Arwen....well...she was okay. I mean, she wasn't AWFUL (though THAT LINE was, yarghghgh, I hate it), but she wasn't awesome either). Personally I think she looks way better in her Arwen costume/wig/etc than in real life...and my friend agrees with me. Not that it matters, since personally i couldn't care less about Arwen... ANYWAY. Topics at hand? I don't even remember...right...Elijah Wood. That's it. His eyes.... (heehee...) and Sam! Okay. That was me... In conclusion: Elijah Wood IS cute, and I think he's an awesome Frodo...but gimme Sam any day! -tano __________________ Wisdom for Short Attention Spans...Ozy and Millie. It rocks. Food Of The Gods: 3,7-dihydro-3,7-dimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione Feed Me.... Another Online Dwelling Place... "All right, I confess. It is my intention to comandeer a ship, pick up a crew in Tortuga, to rape, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer my weasely black guts out." -Captain Jack Sparrow "The trouble with unknown enemies is that they are so difficult to identify." -Amelia Peabody Emerson "Most people obey the orders of someone who is pointing a gun at their head." -A.P. Emerson

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